Why are Newbies Such Whiners?

rn/writer, RN · Jan 12, 2007

This thread has been a good one so far, with thought-provoking ideas and intelligent responses. Please, let's keep it that way. Discuss the merits of a message without going after the messenger.

Thank you.

TrudyRN · Jan 12, 2007

I think it is important that when one is the novice in the relationship, that the novice realizes that it is okay to make mistakes and ask questions. Its even okay to ask the rationale behind the answer. However...it is a learning experience - that is why the institution pays BOTH the preceptor and orientee. The novice learns and hopefully doesn't repeat mistakes. However, it does sometimes take criticism or a negative encounter to understand that the novice doesn't come to the playing field an experienced RN. So...to make mistakes in the new role is okay...no reason to get defensive...no one expects the novice to have the knowledge level of the experienced preceptor.

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But it is awfully terrifyuing to think that the OP was about to receive her Rx totally in error. And would have gotten them, had she not been awake and in her right mind, knowledgeable and able to fend for herself. She could easily have become a statistic. In that case, the mistakes could have been deadly. And that is not OK.

I sometimes wonder if maybe we make too much out of mistakes or near-misses. But this thread is a strong reminder of why we have to strive for perfection in this dangerous profession of ours.

TrudyRN · Jan 12, 2007

When I was recently hospitalized you should have heard the audible comments made by the nurses on the floor (an oncology floor no less, in a hosp w/religious affiliation). And these nurses were being mild. I was too sick and did not want to antagonize the nurses any more than I already did just by being there, otherwise I might have called to them from the door to my room and told them that every word of their conversations could be heard by all of us "impositions". And these people were not in newbie, preceptor mode either. The only people employed there who acted like healthcare workers that give a r**** a** were, the nursing assts! Say what you want to say, vent all you want, gossip, blah, blah, blah but please don't do it in the presence of, or in earshot of the patients. None of us deserve this invasion of our privacy. I couldn't crawl out of that place fast enough!

I hope you followed up with a letter or call to Administration. Those nurses need to know how they are perceived by patients and they need to change their evil ways immediately if not sooner.

TrudyRN · Jan 12, 2007

What shocks me is the rudeness. Whether you are a "newbie", or an "oldie", remember the manners your mother taught you. As a student I cringe when I see students using the computers/charts etc... unaware of the nurses and doctors wating for them, I also cringe when no one gets up to give a staff member a chair when we are listening to report. I stand at the back of the room and listen. If there are enough seats to go around, then I'll sit, if not then the visitor (read students) should graciously give up their seats. Now on the other hand, there have been some nurses who will have a heart attack if you set foot in the nurses station even when it is just about empty. Some will bite your head off for using a chart, getting meds etc... I don't think it is about your "status". I think the rude "newbies" are the ones who turn out to be the "mean" nurses later on.

You need to get with the instructors and make it known that students are to stand while nurses sit, then the instructors can tell that to their students, since you do not want to tell them.

TrudyRN · Jan 12, 2007

i agree i get sick of it too. but then, i really think new nurses are more stressed than we were (i too have been a nurse that long). the reason being, i think most nursing schools don't train a nurse for what their work will be. there is too much focus on book work and theory rather than application of theory ,ie...working!. (young nurses don't get me wrong, we got the same background on theory you did , it's just that we worked under the watchful eye of a nursing instructor much more time than most schools seem to now days. ) i work icu, er. when a nursing student comes in the nursing instructor is usually around "some where". our instructors were breathing down our backs. i had a nursing studet come in and say. "i'm only allowed to watch the vent today".. the nursing instuctor was no where to be found. ( this is typical by-the-way) i started going over the asessment with her, she said i'm not to do that today, i'm only doing the vent. so i pulled a chair up in front of the vent and i told her to come get me right away if the bellow stopped going up and down, or if a pretty red light comes on. or if the vent makes a wha, wha sound run like the wind. i later found the instuctor, and she said," yes that's her goal today. to observe the vent. " what! i went in and asked the student about the vent, o2 tissue diffusion gradient,vt, abg interp. etc.. she was lost. now can you imagine how stressed she is going to be as a new grad trying to figure out how to manage 8 pt.s and corralate lab, pt asessment etc. feel bad for her really. she is paying a tremendous amt of money for her education and is getting none.

i hope you get to talk to that instructor and figure out what she is thinking. maybe it also would be good to chat with her boss and convey your concerns. you're so right about the student being shortchanged. that is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard!!!!:uhoh21:

interleukin · Jan 12, 2007

I strongly agree.

If more families/patients reported bad behavior you'd see these buck up or disappear real fast.

interleukin · Jan 12, 2007

re; ...the bellow stopped going up and down, or if a pretty red light comes on. or if the vent makes a wha, wha sound run like the wind...

thank you for a good laugh, i escpecially like the, "wha wha" alarm.

tridil2000, MSN, RN · Jan 12, 2007

ruby- i hope you feel better and have recovered well. i miss you. i had to leave the other place bc v finally got to me, not you and i miss you.

on topic-

we are here to help new nurses learn. we want you to learn. we want you to question things and yourselves early on. you will be a better nurse if you can handle being taught!

again, i try to imagine docs doing this! imagine an intern complaining about the attending being "mean" when the intern is flat out wrong about something??!!

i prefer to use the word tough. tough teachers are the best teachers. they won't sugar coat your pitfalls, but make you face them and correct them. socially women can't handle that. they want to be "liked" so they say tough nurses are "mean."

now there is a difference between a truly mean preceptor and a tough one who won't let you slide. there's a maturity factor involved too. if you ever feel that your preceptor is truly "mean" you need to address your complaint to the nurse manager with specific incidents. follow up will occur. if your preceptor is tough, look at your training and listen to what s/he is telling you. ask questions, "how would you do it?" etc. and suck it all in! admit to not knowing things, or not thinking about the problem at hand that way. your preceptor has tons of info to share with you, if you let them!

catchy title, eh? right up there with "why are nurses such backstabbers" (assuming that all nurses are backstabbers) and "nurses eat their young" and "why are nurses so mean?" i don't know about the rest of us "seasoned nurses", but i'm getting rather tired of all the threads busting on us for being "mean" to new nurses, students, etc. it seems to be an underlying assumption on most of the threads of the ilk that nurses are mean, evil backstabbers who live to humiliate someone with less experience.
i've had the opportunity lately to observe some newbies and their preceptors from the patient's perspective. granted, i've been a nurse for 29 years and have been both an orientee and a preceptor -- most recently an orientee. so i do have some experience from pretty much all sides now.
i was a patient, flat in bed after my spinal surgery. the orientee and preceptor introduced themselves, outlined the plan for the day, and then the preceptor left for a short while to sort out another patient who was screaming the screams of the totally demented, leaving the orientee to do my assessment and am care. the orientee was supposed to be almost ready to be on her own -- and she scared me to death! wanted to give my antihypertensives when my bp was 82/50, wanted to give my hctz when i was dehydrated from vomiting, npo, and my iv rate was only 50cc/hour and a few other things indicating (to me, anyway) poor judgment. when i refused to take the meds and outlined my rationale, she ordered me to take them anyway so she wouldn't get into trouble. i asked her how long she'd been in this job, and was it her first nursing job, or where had she worked before. the floodgates opened, and she started complaining about what a terrible place it was to work, the lousy pay, the horrible hours and how all the experienced staff were mean to her. (the preceptor came back into the room in time to hear that.) totally unprofessional! the preceptor didn't say anything in front of me, and calmly took her off to "plan the rest of our day."
later that day, i overheard the orientee telling someone (i'm assuming on her cellphone) how totally mean her preceptor was, and how the preceptor was "out to get her." she said "all i was doing was bonding with my patient who is a nurse, too, and the ***** (preceptor) just totally humiliated me. she told me i was unprofessional! i thought you were supposed to be nice to your patients."
nurse eating her young? or totally out of line and unprofessional newbie whining about being justifiably corrected?
another time, i heard a preceptor tell her orientee not to give my antihypertensives if my bp was less than 100/systolic. (it was.) newbie comes in to give my antihypertensives anyway. (different newbie.) i refuse. newbie goes to get preceptor. preceptor and i discuss my bp and agree not to give antihypertensives. later, i hear preceptor calmly explaining to newbie that giving an antihypertensive to a hypotensive patient can cause problems. (they're out in the hall, evidently close to my room, and i didn't hear anyone else around, so i'm assuming there was at least an illusion of privacy for this discussion.) newbie got defensive and started lying. preceptor remained calm and reiterated her position. newbie continued to be defensive, escalating the volume. later, i hear the two newbies commisserating about how mean their respective preceptors are.
i have to admit that when i hear a new nurse complaining about how "nurses eat their young", especially after those recent experiences, i always wonder what a preceptor could possibly do to try to correct some of these blatent mistakes without being accused of being "mean." and i wonder if that new nurse was as ridiculously in the wrong as those two were, and if she was, did she have any clue that her problems weren't all someone else's fault!
precepting is a tough enough job without being accused of being evil everytime you try to help someone to do better! being a new person is difficult, too -- but please try to look at what you contribute to the problem rather than just blaming the seasoned nurses you work with!

patsyNJ2006 · Jan 12, 2007

Forgive me, but I thought something I wrote on another forum was appropriate here.
Nursing students must be taught that their safety and professional well being come first. Saying, "no" to assignments or tasks that are either too demanding to maintian safety, or ramp out of control, will engender respect.
If it brings reprimand, cynicism, condescension, or managerial resistence, then it's time for a new position.
Not asking for help will create an instant breeding ground for stress and discontent.
Expect and practice equality.
Practice saying, "Your [behavior/condescension/rudeness/yelling/etc.] is unacceptable and is an embarassment to your proferssion." You will be too upset to think it when it's needed.
Your desk is yours. Your report is vital. Don't hesitate to take it when the time comes. Don't go searching for charts for others. They're around.
Stop apologizing for doing your job. If the doctor is supposed to put in orders, make them do it. God knows, you have enough to do and they will not very receptive when you ask them to help you with a turn or insert an ng tube. If you have to wake up a doc for a good reason, it's not about him, or you, or the price of Bahamian swordfish. It's about care. The CEO will not apologize to you after you get sprayed with sputum from disonnected vent tubing.
In general, do not clean up after others. If they made a mess, they can help clean it. It is this kind of everyday behavior that perpetuates the die-hard, nurse-as-maid identity.
Require that they wash their hands according to contemporary standards of infection control. It's not about them, it's about the patient. Always remind them of that. And remember, no manager worth his/her salt will ever side with a physician for not washing his/her hands.
When approached without the courtesy of a, "Good morning, or hello," I simply say, "I'm fine..how are you?" I say it with a smile and, in ten years, it has never never failed to create the expectation of respect and decency to the interaction.
"Yeah, but you're a guy!"
Well, again, fuhgettaboutit!! Respect is behavior specific, not gender specific.
Unless your patient's crashing, take your break and take your lunch. No one cares how many you've skipped. There is no martyr ranking that is tallied when you get to heaven. It's is not a badge of honor. Rather, it says, "My well being is not important. And I will fulfill whatever demand you place upon me because I am a nurse and this is my calling!"
Why don't you just throw yourself on a pointy stick while you're at it.
Take a stand...be a true advocate for not only your patient..but more importantly...for yourself.

As a recent grad (pinned just three weeks ago) I have to say that.....

"Interleukin, you're my hero":bowingpur

I was lucky enough that during preceptorship, we discussed these ideals-- who else will look out for me, if not me?

Perhaps nursing is some sort of calling, why do some of us choose it? Not necessarily the schedule (sure, I'd love to work Christmas!), or the money, or the physical labor of it all ....but by referring to it as a "calling" instead of "career" does that mean we shouldn't think of compensation and protecting our future?

interleukin · Jan 12, 2007

As a recent grad (pinned just three weeks ago) I have to say that.....

"Interleukin, you're my hero":bowingpur

Thank you.

I will soon be teaching nursing. My goal will be not only to guide/provide the basics, but to instill a level of self-esteem, confidence, and dignity of self and purpose that will be vital, not only in nursing, but in life.

It's a tall order, but nothing of real value comes quickly. The bar of nursing education has, too often, been set too low or has been taught by those who should not be in the classroom.

patsyNJ2006 · Jan 12, 2007

Being an older student, I thought many times that some of younger classmates took too many things personally from instructors.

It's not that the instructor doesn't like you, he/she just doesn't want you to injure yourself or someone else! So if they correct your performance, or offer you criticism try thinking of it as a helpful tip....they've been around nursing slightly longer and perhaps have the wisdom of experience.

I always tried to learn by watching and emulating positive traits, and watching and learning from the mistakes I've seen.

nursemike, ASN, RN · Jan 12, 2007

I was very fortunate in my orientation. I work on the unit where I worked before I started nursing school, so I like to believe I had already proven my work ethic and willingness to take instruction. I was also allowed to choose my primary mentors, and naturally I chose the ones I most respected. But due to the vagaries of scheduling, I actually oriented with about 14 different nurses at one time or another, including one who'd been an RN for about 3 months (we all had a good chuckle, but this was fairly late in my orientation, and she was very sharp, with several years experience prior to getting her RN, and it went just fine.)

I'm not a whiner. One of my CN's laughs that I'm the only nurse he knows who says thanks when given an admission. I suppose what I really mean is "OK, I'm ready..." but I see nothing wrong with "thanks." Anyway, it has been a point of pride to take the assignment I'm given and do the best I can with it. Only lately have I come to appreciate the responsibility to consider whether the assignment is appropriate--I had a patient not too long ago that I should have advocated for an ICU bed, because there was no way to manage her and 5 others. Fortunately, it all worked out okay, but I won't make that mistake again. Still, I'm never going to gripe about merely being busy.

I've been very pleased with the level of support I've enjoyed from my mentors and now my peers. But on my same unit, I've seen a new nurse chewed out for putting specimen tubes in a biohazard bag outside the pt's room, rather than in the room (we use little baggies to ship them to the lab). Bagging the tubes in the room is correct, but that's a pretty petty thing to jump on someone for. And even if you consider it a serious error, there are better ways to correct someone than berating them. I think the victim finally wound up with a different preceptor, and she did make it through orientation, but I wouldn't have blamed her for whining a bit. (The same nurse who precepted her chided me one day for not saying in report what PITA's one of the patients' family was that I handed off to her. She wasn't real nasty about it, and I'm fairly thick-skinned, so I apologized and made a mental note to mention such things in my oral updates, from now on, though I also told her I hadn't found them to be such PITAs. I wasn't real sanctimonious about it, though, because most people did find them to be, and I was probably just lucky that they liked me. Well...I did listen to them, too, which is probably why they liked me...)

I have seen a very few--just a couple, really--newbies who seemed to have no business in nursing. They're gone, now. I've also seen, and been, a new nurse who struggled with at least some parts of orientation. It's really hard to be a nurse. And I have no sympathy with those seasoned nurses who seem to believe "I went through hell, so now it's your turn." and there are some.

The nurses I've learned most from have been thoroughly professional. They don't make excuses for you when you screw up, but they do recognize that you will screw up, and they're there to catch you when you do. Then they explain how you screwed up, and how to avoid it, next time, and the more you prove your ability to not screw up again, the more freedom you get, until finally you're practicing on your own and not screwing up very often, and even anticipating potential screw ups to confer with more experienced nurses over. And that, I think, is how it should go, and clearly how it can go, since that's how it went for me.

So, yes, some newbies are whiners, and some have plenty to whine about.