what do nurses think of medical assistants?

TXERRN · Feb 18, 2001

Originally posted by chili2641:
Most nurses I know have not gone to school for four years. To become an RN it usually only requires an Associate degree. The education argument does not fly with me. An MA with an Associates degree has the same amount of education as an RN with a Associates degree. However The MA is not a nurse. The amount of education is not in question here. You are not more educated if you both hold the same degree. Most professionals have earned the minimum of a Bachelors degree. A nurse with a BSN is more educated but is no more of a nurse than a diploma RN.

I feel the need to correct you on this point. An MA with an AD does NOT have the same education that an RN has, under any circumstances. If they did, they could sit for the NCLEX. The MA does not have the same pre-reqs, classes or clinicals. They cannot do plan of care for patients, discharge planning, blood product administration and monitoring, chemotherapy administration or many other skills unique to the RN. They may not hold charge positions, delegate patient care, or manage patient care.

A degree is not a degree. I have an AD in another field, does that mean I should have been able to practice nursing? No.

If you so vehemently protect your AD, go back and become an RN and then you will see why we RN's protect our titles so carefully.

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TX ER RN

hollykate · Feb 18, 2001

Alright JulieW!

I personally am tired of hearing about other degrees from a certain poster. When I went to nursing school I had a BA and an MA in a totally unrelated field. Yes, I was more educated than some of my instructors- but they had information I needed to know. Now, I have more education than most people I work with: with a BA, a BSN and an MA. It makes no difference to me. The best nurses I have worked with have come out of one of the last remaining Diploma programs around (Watts, in Raleigh).

But you aren't a nurse unless you have completed certain classes/training. When I was an aide and was referred to as a nurse I used to explain that while I was a nursing student, I was working as an aide. I used to say, "As your aide I can take your vital signs, help you walk, help you get comfortable in bed, notify your nurse if you are in pain, etc etc" Next time someone says you are "just" a CMA, answer back by telling them, That's right, I am not a nurse, but as a CMA I can....."

OhioRN67, RN · Feb 18, 2001

I agree! I am an RN/ADN and I am certified in Oncology (OCN). Unfortunately there are some BSN nurses out there that think they are better than ADN nurses. I went to college for three years to earn my nursing degree and it is one of the hardest nursing schools in Texas. In fact, some of my classmates did not survive our program and enrolled in the local University BSN program and graduated. Wake up!! We are all RN's and we take the same state boards! In my opinion, the OCN exam was harder than state boards will ever be. I have worked with BSN's who can't even start an IV line. That is really sad! We are all equal!! I don't think that our patient's care if you have RN or BSN by your name. So just stop acting like you are better than everyone else.

TXERRN · Feb 18, 2001

hhebertrn1 who are you posting to? I believe the original conversation was started discussing M.A.'s versus nurses. I agree that there is no difference between ADN/BSN nurses, except ADN nurses get more clinical experience in school. I have my ADN and am proud of it. I am currently getting my BSN and see no benefit in the courses I am now taking. They surely haven't taught me anything my ADN program didn't already teach me.

swmn · Feb 18, 2001

Congratulations Karen!

Nothing like starting out on a hot topic. As an R.N. I am acutely sensitive to CNA's and LPN's among my co-workers being refered to as "nurses." It happens all the time. To the public it seems like anybody who fluffs a patient pillow must be a nurse. When asked what or whom I am I say not "I am a nurse" but "I am an R.N." sometimes I have to add "Registered Nurse", but Joe Public does seem to still understand among "nurses" I am the ace of spades.

I do still get a little uncomfortable when my patients refer to a CNA as "my other nurse," but I am getting over it. To me it is not a battle worth fighting. I know they are not nurses, says right on the label "nursing assistant." Still, if the CNA was not available I would be the one giving bed baths and answering call bells. CNAs unmistakably work within my scope of practice, and they are going to be referred to as "nurses" by patients who do not know any better. I have too many other teaching responsibilites to lose sleep over that. Is an LPN or LVN a "nurse", sure.

But you are a "medical assistant" with an associates degree. I have never worked with one of those. It sounds to me like you have been educated to work in a physician practice, sort of the first hire to get everything rolling. I imagine you probably have some basic triage skills, and know way more about ICD-9 codes than I ever will care to hear about. I don't really know, MA is a new one on me today. As long as you work within your scope of practice, and ask for help when you are over your head, I'll get along with you fine.

As far as I am concerned there are three kinds of people in healthcare right now. There are hands on caregivers like nurses and MDs. There are administrative people who help me see more patients and do more hands on patient care, and there are no account paper pushers who ought to be taken out and shot. I get along fine with everyone in group one and everyone in group two. Please try to avoid joining group three.

Scott

chili2641 · Feb 18, 2001

I think you guys get my point. The education debate is rediculous. I just pose questions and try to get people chatting. Do not take it personal. I have never told any one I work with about my college education. I work beside very few if any college grads and I have never wanted to seperate my self from them. Remember you get to advertize your title and your educatuion. Where as I the aid can not. I just put in my two week notice. I have made the decision to leave my nurse aid job behind me. My interests have changed the doors are starting to open finally. I hope the fact that I am relentless will make me a really good lawyer. I meant no disrespect and I appreciate all the hard working nurses and nursing assistants. My point was you do not know someones education level.

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Nursing assistant

chili2641 · Feb 18, 2001

If education is no big deal,then why are you talking about it all the time? Why does that word seem to divide you? I am just trying to get you to think. I am also trying to get you to see the issue from a different perspective. I do not use my real name so how am I getting any glory from this? I beleive in myself, and it is a good thing because not one of you have congratulated me.

That I beleive is the nature of nursing!

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Nursing assistant

Louie18 · Feb 19, 2001

All I have to say is this:

Without you, we wouldn't make it.

Welcome aboard.

Louie DuLac RN

Mijourney · Feb 20, 2001

Originally posted by Louie18:
All I have to say is this:
Without you, we wouldn't make it.
Welcome aboard.

Louie DuLac RN

Hi Louie. Like your short and sweet compliment. We are all in this together. Let's stop trying to find a reason to continuously eat each other with our personal issues.

Again, Karen. Best wishes. Let the comment roll off your back.

daisie · Feb 23, 2001

I didn't know there were M.A.s until I had about 2 months left in nursing school. I'm an LPN. I was shocked and upset. If I had known about the M.A.s I would have done that instead of spending all that time in nursing school. Maybe LPN's make more money, no one likes to divulge their salaries. I did my clinicals in 3 different facilities and there were M.A.s in them and they were just as capable as the nurses at their jobs. The only way I knew they were not nurses is if I asked them. All the staff in these facilities did not have LPN or RN on their badges, it said, "Nursing Staff." With the shortage of nurses, we nursing techs. I wish we had some where I work now.

NorthNurse · Feb 23, 2001

The problem with everyone being labeled nursing staff, is the deception to the public, on who is, or is not, a professional registered nurse, I personally want to know who I am dealing with, case in point, notified by my son's new school, his Hep B series was not given appropriately, called the Dr's office about it, spoke to a MA, she checked the record and said the chart says last shot to be given 4 mo after 2cd, my son had it about 2 months later, by a previous MA in the same office, and she didn't know what to tell me, I asked if they could draw a titer and if it would be acceptable for the school, she didn't know, told her I would find out myself and I called the Public health dept, told by the person answering the phone, that he would have to get another series, I asked, "Are you a registered nurse?" she got huffy and said I will tranfer you to Sandy, anyway this very knowledgeable RN, explained that there is an accelerated schedule for HEP B, but she would have to check with head officer in Lansing and Call me back, she did in about 10 minutes, and said it was 59 day interval that is allowed here in this state, (MI) and he was 57 days, so unfortunately he would require another injection, this was outstanding I thought, and I was very glad, this RN knew about the accelerated scheduled and checked, it might have saved him another shot, I felt compelled to report the phone answering lady, giving immunization advice, and not being a RN, which is illegal in most states, as for MA's doing Nursing functions, only under delegation in this state, and there are several legal implications if a MA poses as a RN. I think MA's are not paid to do what they (Dr Offices and clinics) expect them to do, but they do it anyway, and these Dr. offices figure as long as they don't get caught its ok, because they make more money, although putting unsuspecting patients at risk. By the way they didn't charge me for the 4th Hep B injection, naturally everyone can make mistakes, but now I make sure its an RN (with Pediatric specialty preferred)I am dealing with when it comes to my kids. NN

I didn't know there were M.A.s until I had about 2 months left in nursing school. I'm an LPN. I was shocked and upset. If I had known about the M.A.s I would have done that instead of spending all that time in nursing school. Maybe LPN's make more money, no one likes to divulge their salaries. I did my clinicals in 3 different facilities and there were M.A.s in them and they were just as capable as the nurses at their jobs. The only way I knew they were not nurses is if I asked them. All the staff in these facilities did not have LPN or RN on their badges, it said, "Nursing Staff." With the shortage of nurses, we nursing techs. I wish we had some where I work now.

maikranz · Feb 23, 2001

Originally posted by NorthNurse:
The problem with everyone being labeled nursing staff, is the deception to the public, on who is, or is not, a professional registered nurse, I personally want to know who I am dealing with, case in point, notified by my son's new school, his Hep B series was not given appropriately, called the Dr's office about it, spoke to a MA, she checked the record and said the chart says last shot to be given 4 mo after 2cd, my son had it about 2 months later, by a previous MA in the same office, and she didn't know what to tell me, I asked if they could draw a titer and if it would be acceptable for the school, she didn't know, told her I would find out myself and I called the Public health dept, told by the person answering the phone, that he would have to get another series, I asked, "Are you a registered nurse?" she got huffy and said I will tranfer you to Sandy, anyway this very knowledgeable RN, explained that there is an accelerated schedule for HEP B, but she would have to check with head officer in Lansing and Call me back, she did in about 10 minutes, and said it was 59 day interval that is allowed here in this state, (MI) and he was 57 days, so unfortunately he would require another injection, this was outstanding I thought, and I was very glad, this RN knew about the accelerated scheduled and checked, it might have saved him another shot, I felt compelled to report the phone answering lady, giving immunization advice, and not being a RN, which is illegal in most states, as for MA's doing Nursing functions, only under delegation in this state, and there are several legal implications if a MA poses as a RN. I think MA's are not paid to do what they (Dr Offices and clinics) expect them to do, but they do it anyway, and these Dr. offices figure as long as they don't get caught its ok, because they make more money, although putting unsuspecting patients at risk. By the way they didn't charge me for the 4th Hep B injection, naturally everyone can make mistakes, but now I make sure its an RN (with Pediatric specialty preferred)I am dealing with when it comes to my kids. NN
I didn't know there were M.A.s until I had about 2 months left in nursing school. I'm an LPN. I was shocked and upset. If I had known about the M.A.s I would have done that instead of spending all that time in nursing school. Maybe LPN's make more money, no one likes to divulge their salaries. I did my clinicals in 3 different facilities and there were M.A.s in them and they were just as capable as the nurses at their jobs. The only way I knew they were not nurses is if I asked them. All the staff in these facilities did not have LPN or RN on their badges, it said, "Nursing Staff." With the shortage of nurses, we nursing techs. I wish we had some where I work now.

Sorry if I seem dense, but your post was difficult to read.

Why wasn't a titer an acceptable option? Is your son primary school age? High school? College? Just curious. CDC has a great website with loads of information.

If the medical assistant identified herself as such, how was she posing as an RN?

The delegation laws are quite specific, differ from state to state, and address all UAPs: nursing assistant, patient care tech, and medical assistant. I would have talked to the doctor/provider.

[This message has been edited by maikranz (edited February 23, 2001).]