Speaking of incompetent coworkers - vent and request for help

[Nurse Ratched]

Near the end of the shift, a pt family approached the nurses' station today to inform the first person she saw (who happened to be the pt's nurse) that her mother (a lovely little confused elderly lady) needed to use the BR. The nurse, according to the unit secretary who was mortified and told the other two nurses, told the family member and I quote, "She has a Depends on; she can go in that."

The secretary did not want to be perceived as "tattling" but neither could she let this comment go. The nurse happened to be our charge nurse for the day (shouldn't be, but that's another thread.) The family was clearly uncomfortable with the response and the secretary was fortunately able to intervene and get one of us to assist the lady in question.

I am horrified. I did not say anything because of how I came about the information (third hand - altho I have no doubt of the veracity of it) and the fact that I was so angry that someone would do that I was concerned about the nature of my response if I had said something.

Thank you for letting me vent and, please, let me know how I can approach this person now after the fact. I know immediate interaction is usually better, but that's shot, so any suggestions? The thought that will keep me awake tonight is that if that family member had gotten (justifiably) angry and asked to see the person in charge, it would have been the *same* person, and that somewhat implies that she was the most experienced, qualified person on the unit. I don't want this family or anyone thinking that this is how we run our unit. More importantly, I don't want it happening again.

[night owl]

I too am very glad that it was reported to the NM. Hopefully something will be done. This kind of insensitive, rude behavior must be stopped. These people need a reality check!

[mario_ragucci]

Would the police respond to something like this? What would the police say if someone called 911 and insisted on help with a BM? Is it a crime to treat a person like this? What can be inforced? I dare anyone to address this. :-)

[micro, RN]

At the least, it would be considered neglect. Does it truly get enforced much, sadly no. Should it, he.... yes.

[Paprikat]

This happened at my facility, an (alert) res. asked a care aide to use the commode and she was told to go in her brief and she would change the brief. The resident reported it to her family who told the DON. Needless to say, the care aide was suspended for a few days, which I completely agree with. It just makes me wonder how many times this has been said to demented patients.....

[LIZZIE57]

"YEARS" AGO AS A FRESHMAN STUDENT, MY FIRST DAY IN CLINICAL, THE CHARGE NURSE TOLD ME NOT TO BOTHER WITH A PATIENT WHO COULD NOT EAT BECAUSE "SHE WAS GOING TO DIE ANYWAY". THE PATIENT WAS 42 YEARS OLD AND HAD TERMINAL CANCER. WELL, I DID TELL MY INSTRUCTOR WHO PROCEEDED TO TAKE CARE OF THE NURSE WHO WAS FIRED ON THE SPOT. I WILL NEVER FORGET THE HORROR OF HER WORDS AND HAVE ALWAYS HANDELED SIMILAR SITUATIONS (ONLY A FEW OVER THE YEARS) WITH SIMILAR ACTIONS. 0 TOLERANCE, AND I DON'T CARE HOW "SHORT "WE ARE!!!!!

[mario_ragucci]

I, at first, self-rightously, thought this would be appauling in all circumstances. But when I brought this thread up to reality floor nurses, they talked about PT's who had strokes, and could not determine accurately their BM. They also said some amps and quads could be turned on their side to go like that, because they couldn't get up. Then i can imagine the PT who is just panicing all the time.

So if a RN has 7 PT's and 1 is having 3-4 BM's a shift, it puts the RN in a haze. If you are really busy, honestly really busy, which is usually the case as a floor person, what could you do?

Right away our minds jump to a PT with a legitimate request for help being refused. But what happens when it all adds up on the floor and you just can't get one to one with a PT. I retract my blanket critisism until i've seen it all. It would depend on the situation, and the reputation/track record of the persons involved. I'm sorry :-(

[Nurse Ratched, RN]

Mario, it never hurts to try and see the other side of the story. Things may not always be what they seem. So I will add that this woman, despite being confused, had been with us several days and didn't ask often to use to BR and was accurate in her statements of needing to "go." She wore a Depends because of stress incontinence problems.

(And this nurse was sitting at the time; not charting, not on break, just sitting... I was there that day and we were not rushed.)

[jude11142]

At the facility where I work, we have come across this several times. The latest incident occured during dinner hr. One of our residents had her call light on and said that she had to go to the bathroom. The aide told her that she was busy handing out trays and besides, "you have a diaper on". The supervisor overheard this and called this aide aside and told her to go and take Ms. so and so to the bathroom. Well, the aide continued to argue that the resident is incontinent, so why must she toilet her etc..............Anyways, it was stressed that any resident that asks to be toileted must be. It's been over 2 weeks now and still not only is this one aide complaining still but the others agree with her??? I don't get it. I like someones earlier idea of letting the person who says something like that to have to go in their panties and see how it feels. Talk about humiliating. I am getting so sick of hearing this same arguement. What is it that people don't understand about dignity? BTW, it's not only aides as we have had nurses who agree that it's "a waste of time" to toilet these residents.

JUDE

[DelGR]

How does anyone know it is a waste of time to toilet a patient that request to use the commode or bedpan? I've seen incontinent patients become continent once their needs were met in that area. Some have become incontinent due to lack of caring individuals that are hired to help them function at their highest level.

I, too, have heard nurses and aides tell a patient to go in their bed or diaper and they'd clean them up when they(the health careworker) thought they(the patient) was finished.

I've heard healthcare workers chide adult patients as if they were bad children for not letting the healthcare worker know when they needed their diapers changed. And, this is after they have repeatedly requested assistance with toiletting and just couldn't hold it any longer. Unbelievable!!!!!

When I've learned of this, I make a point of taking that person aside and asking them how they would feel if they were talked to that way if they were demented, elderly, or lacked strenghth to do it on their own.