Some questions for all the nurses

[RNIAM]

BSN nurses would you be happy with the LPN, RN, BSN etc, if You had something more to show for you degree?

What I mean is this . What if when you graduated their was a destiction between a four,two or one year program?

This would mean that you as BSN graduates would have to take a harder exam befiiting you extended education. Maybe their could be a new title for you, istead of RN you might be called BN (bachelorette Nurse) With it came a higher pay. Would this stop the everyone has to become a BSN or would it just add more fuel to the fire?

For the RN two year program nurses. How would you feel? Would this be fair in your estimation or would you feel slighted?I truly would love to see a unified proffession. Is this one way to get their?

Here is a post question to LPN's and Two year RN's If money was not an object, would you become a BSN? If your experience counted towards your degree would that help? What would it take for you to want to get more education? How about paid trainning and education? Thanks for your input

[WalMart_ADN]

ugh. grow up mark. let it be. give it a rest. perhaps i had not "corrected you" because i have better things to do then read your insults directed towards me? maybe that's it? and just to clear things up...i made no snide remarks, and i never insulted your BSN degree. for chri**s sake mark, stop looking for an arguement. Maybe someday, after many more years of work on my lowly little less than mediocre don't deserve to work in the same field as you associates degree, i will be as cool as you and will be able to be one of those annoying people that refer to myself as a BSN nurse. that is, if i don't get fired for my apparent lack of knowledge as an associates degree nurse.

so there are my snide comments for the evening. have a field day.

Heather----lady parts envy?? you are killing me :roll i love you girl!lol:chuckle

[angeliquedenise]

[ Renee, Are you sure your not a undercover lawyer...:chuckle

awesome arguements!!

[mark_LD_RN]

i am glad to see you all have a little life in you,:). heather i like your lady parts envy theory! that is a good one. and the statement that i seem to only argue with females thats not totally true, i have debated dayray and other males on different threads see lowering the bar. the difference seems to be is that he will debate with out getting emotional and insulting. another reason may be that their are more females here so the odds are more likely i will debate a female.

walmart ADN i am not looking for an arguement.I just posted in response to your inference that BSN were stupid.

if you would read my other posts on topics similar to this you would see i have nothing against ADN at all and am just sick of hearing this arguement brought up over and over again. one gets very sick of hearing bull**** statements like all BSN have no skills, I had to teach a BSN grade to give IM injection,BSN only have and want management skills YADA, YADA , yada.

yes heather the quotes were taken out of context. they were seperattted from the rest of the post. maybe i should not have brought the arguement down to walmart adn's level. that was my mistake to stoop to pointing out her insult. It is amazing to see how everyone gets so defensive. The BSN envy statement was meant as an a funny type of statement. did you not notice the LITTLE smily face after it. nad again heather it was not pointed at you or any other adn just the one i mentioned.

as far as using stong words, i used them as that is what it seemed like from posts not meant as facts. everybody just take a deep breath and relax everthing will be ok.

[bagladyrn, RN]

The one thing I don't see discussed here is the fact that for many of us, a BSN is, at least initially, an impossibility. Having put myself through an AD program by selling my house, working nights, while going to school days with a toddler at home (single mom), I never considered a 4 yr. program. Those complaining about the short staffing should consider this. Eliminating degrees other than BSN would cut out a whole sector of otherwise well

qualified candidates.

[mark_LD_RN]

hey walmart ADN i am all growed up now, I just got got me some new toys i think i will go play :):):):):)

[OBNURSEHEATHER]

Originally posted by mark_LD_RN

if you would read my other posts on topics similar to this you would see i have nothing against ADN at all and am just sick of hearing this arguement brought up over and over again. one gets very sick of hearing bull**** statements like all BSN have no skills, I had to teach a BSN grade to give IM injection,BSN only have and want management skills YADA, YADA , yada.

Gee Mark, why are you getting so defensive? Her statements weren't pointed at you Mark, just the BSN's she was talking about in her orientation.

See Mark, that was the same line you fed WalmartADN and me when you delivered your bull**** generalizations of ADN's.

You keep telling me to calm down and quit taking offense at your statements. Then why are you? The point here is Mark, this IS an old argument, and we are all tired of it. No matter what the level of education we all have, we will all defend it to our death. Why? Because we ARE proud of it. Perhaps you can see that no amount of smilies would ever compensate for a statement like "you seem to have a classic case of BSN envy." In no way, shape, or form could that ever have been taken as lightly as you say you meant it. It was condescending (as most of your statements are), and it was wrong.

And as for your last post? How freakin passive-aggressive can you be?

I anxiously await your smart-a** I-have-to-have-the-last-word comment

Heather

[psychomachia]

Ahhh, the ADN vs BSN war has erupted again...

I'm not here to argue one degree over the other, but only to point out that it will NEVER matter WHAT degree is used for an entry level nurse because politics and/or economics determines our future more than our basic level of education.

The great debate probably started back in 1965 when the ANA recommended the BSN as the minimum education requirement for "professional" nursing and the AS degree as the minimum for "technical" nursing. Prior to this the debate probably centered on "BSN vs Diploma" since the AS degree/community college programs didn't really begin until the late '50s / early '60s due to...that's right....A NURSING SHORTAGE!! Deja vu?

In 1978, the ANA stated that by 1985 the minimum education level for entry level nurses should be the BSN and in 1982 the NLN also agreed with the BSN recommendation.

So why hasn't the BSN as the entry level education recommendation become a reality?

The women's movement of the '60s and '70s seemed to focus more on women making inroads to male dominated professions rather than supporting those already dominated by women. Thus, little was gained by nurses while "professional" women (doctors, lawyers, etc) saw greater oppportunities.

One thing nurses did gain during this period was a changing health care system created by Medicare / Medicaid. Hospitals expanded and technology changed along with the nurses role, which created even more of a demand, thereby making the two year degree irreplaceable since nurses needed to be trained quickly.

The ANA and NLN are organizations that have never "united" nurses as a political force, unlike the AMA has for doctors. Nurses who want to be recognized as "professionals" (the ANA and others who chant the "BSN only" mantra) seem resistant to the concept of unionization and appearing too "blue collar."

Although the ANA does present itself as a promoter of labor rights, I don't believe it has done as much as other labor unions with regards to labor contracts/negotiations/benefits. And by continuing on the "BSN only" dogma, they are only alienating many of the working nurses who should be joining their ranks. You can bet your next set of dues that most unions don't care about degrees when representing bargaining members.

Also, there are many community colleges who probably depend on their nursing programs in order to stay open. Although I haven't seen any statistics, I would bet that a nursing program is one of the best money infusers there is for a community college. Don't think for a second they're going to let that be taken away without a fight. Plus, there aren't enough Univerisity programs to absorb all the ADN programs.

Add to these changes a nursing shortage that probably is here to stay for awhile and will not be solved by past measures (downsizing, UAPs, higher workloads) and you have no choice but to continue the training of nurses in community colleges.

So, my point is this...it is pointless to argue the merits of one over the other when "it just doesn't matter...it just doesn't matter...it just doesn't matter..." (anybody know what movie that line is from?)

psychomachia (whose BSN degree hangs on his wall, but not his name tag)

[mark_LD_RN]

touchy arent we:)

i am not trying to be a smart *** as you put it

like i said the statement was made to her not you, and it was about a specific post. i really don't see ALL my statements as condescending as you think they are.

yes i will defend my self if pushed to far , i agree it is a old arguement and often ignore them . put occasionally i make the mistake to visit one of these threads and i see the same old S***. just look at my posts with open mind and if you have read them especially in other threads you will see i do not put down ADNS or other nurses. unless provoked that is. i am not trying to get the last word just trying to clarify what you have seemed to misinterpret. as you said before it is often hard to convey the whole intent of a message on a BB.

must you all ways resort to name calling" smart***"?

what generalizations are you refering to? I said each has it's good and bad nurses,and not alll adns feel the way she does. that dont seem to be a generalization to me. if it is please explain.

[OBNURSEHEATHER]

Originally posted by mark_LD_RN

i am not trying to be a smart *** as you put it

hey walmart ADN i am all growed up now, I just got got me some new toys i think i will go play

Yes, very non-smart ***.

You have absolutely nothing to say to the fact that you are getting just as jumpy and defensive as WalmartADN and I were? You say you get defensive if provoked, do you not see we were doing the same when we were provoked? You won't argue that Mark, because you can't.

You just keep saying "the statement was made to her not you." Her statements were made to some BSN's in her orientation. Tit for tat. Let it go.

Maybe you should just go play with your new toys Mark. I bet they'll let you have the one sided arguments you crave.

Heather

[Brownms46]

:rotfl: (shields up, Mr. Scott) :rotfl:

[cguzowski]

Thank you CHEERFULDOER!

You said it all!

To be unified and proud in our profession, the argument about BSN vs ADN vs Diploma educated nurses must end. The discrimination via educational requirements to obtain "a plum job" must also be weighed against years of experience and other personal attributes.

Experience and confidence as well as personal integrity equals professionalism....and this is how we should conduct ourselves on the job...as unified representatives of the greatest profession in the world...nursing.

Have a great day, all!

[ckirby]

I considered a BSN program when I started school, but I had three issues and none had to do with money... 1. The closest school to my house was an ADN program. 2. The closest BSN program was(and still is ) on probation for their high failure rate on state boards. & last but most important #3. I have 7 children(6 girls and 1 boy) I would have never made it through a four year program. The ADN was hard enough with all the kids wanting constant attention if my only option was BSN I would never be able to be a nurse and I LOVE nursing.