Some questions for all the nurses - page 4

BSN nurses would you be happy with the LPN, RN, BSN etc, if You had something more to show for you degree? What I mean is this . What if when you graduated their was a destiction between a four,two... Read More

  1. by   RNIAM
    What I mean is yes,a harder exam. Meaning after four years of school a person should have more knowledge and therefore, should take a harder exam wich would result in a new title; "whatever that may be" possibly a different uniform or way to dress that is distinctive. You would also be held to a higher authority. With all of this would come a higher pay. If someone told me that I was the same as a nurse that had one year of education. Why would I waste my time going to a two year school? Four year school etc? There has to be a difference or their wouldn't be different levels of education? Am I wrong here?I realize this has been debated to death. This just drives me nuts. Please explain to me how we can all be the same but with different education? This to me seems impossible or is this just politically correct? ie to be "equal" even though we a different?
  2. by   RenayCCRN
    I recieved my trainning in Canada my program was a 3 year Diploma (in college not in hospital like the americian diploma program). The Diploma programin Canada has alot more clinical than the BSN program. I have two children young children and I would love to do my BSN in a year or two when my chilldren are older and I can devote some time, but that is the only reason I have not got my BSN. I agree that we write the same tests. (I wrote the Canadian and the Americian and passed twice) and should get the same pay for the same job, what I often see is that the BSN and Masters program nurses advance to higher levels in the nursing feild such as Manager, DON(CNO), etc.. which is more money. But as far as staff nurse at the bedside BSN/ADN/Diploma nurses should make the same.

    I also agree there should not be separate programs this would eliminate the problem and make a bunch more, but it would standardixe the profession. But peices of each program need to put together to make a better program than the current BSN, maybe three years general and 1 year specialized? Needs work.

    Just this year I asked a BSN student to help me change a patient (was not even my patient) her response was "I'm doing a managerial rotation I don't have to change patients" GET OUT OF TOWN I laughed so hard and for so long I actually hurt. I made very sure that all the Nurse Managers heard about this and no she did not get hired at my hospitial (she did apply).

    Some of the BSN program nurses I have worked with are very, very smart but do not have a lick of common sense.

    I have worked with ADN nurses who are only in nurse because it was only a 2 year program and they slide through and passed exams but are so lazzy it is unreal. They have no ethical or moral comittment to the nursing profession at all and maybe if they had had to go for 3-4 years they might have choosen differently and a lot of people would be better off.

    I don't know the answers but there is such distention in the profession right now that something has to be done to save the profession from becoming a job.
  3. by   NZ RN
    well in NZ its a different system again, but i think it works, to be an RN we do a three year programme including university papers, and clincal rotations. for the last 10 years we also do a bachelors degree in nursing at the same time, so you come out aregistered comprehensive nurse and with a BN. it dosnt really make any diference in pay,just possibly mangement wise if you choose to go that way, but is the main nursing qualification we have. we used to have enrolled nursing(a 2 year diploma) which i guess is like LPN. But that hasnt been happening for 10years. and the only other option is to do a care giver course(maybe 3-6 months) like an assistant postion.
  4. by   mark_LD_RN
    ericaCCRN i despise the term ********Nurse degree. all programs are not the same, Alot of ADN try to knock all BSN programs for lack of clinical skills and that is not true to be accredited college the BSN program is required to have more clinical hours than the adn or lpn programs. I never once said or been told or believe that having a BSN makes one a better nurse. But it does open a few opportunities for some people. In my area the bsn programs have way more clinical time and are focused on the clinical aspect of nursing we were never allowed to make statments or turn down opprtunities for patient care. I have not seen many BSN have the attitude towards ADN that you claim. But i have seen many ADN have it in for the BSN, to let people know you have a BSN is like painting a BULLSEYE on your back they will use every chance to stab you in it and talk about you.

    this is an old debate and it will go on for ever as long as people keep letting feelings and misinformation cloud their thoughts.

    as far as being rewarded for getting a BSN : there should definitely be some reward especially PAY. just as one should be rewared for experience, clinical skill or any other certification. to say other wise is not logical, the old arguement of it is the same job so the pay should be the same is not valid. any real profession values education be it formal or other wise and rewards their workers accordingly. when will nursing ever wise up and stop fighting and become a real profession?
  5. by   EricaCCRN
    Whoa.....Mark LD. I never meant to offend anyone abou the Bull crap nurse. Just a phrase my friends & I coined since our program was full of BS!!! I gained not an extra lick of knowledge by finishing that degree. Don't be so defensive!! I will admit there are those that turn into the green eyed monster in the presence of a BSN but I have encountered very FEW BSN students that are adequately prepared in their clinical aspects. I am not trying to stereotype, just relaying MY OWN personal experience.
  6. by   mark_LD_RN
    well erica i am glad you meant nothing by it, but i think it would be very helpful if everyone would leave the labeling alone. terms like that are not terms of endearment. Like i said all programs are not alike. i have been all over the country and seen grads with adn and bsn each has one with good skills and some with very poor skills. I know adn like to feel they have better clinical skills but that is not true in all cases. I graduate i promise you my skills were as good and probably better than any of the local adn products. not to say that some other areas or programs it would not be the other way around.

    Also to walwart_ADN no one implied ADN were not smart. but your statment " i went to college for 2 yrs graduated with no student loans,now who is smarter?" attitudes and statements like these are just inflammatory. from your post you imply that the money spent for higher education is a waste IE stupid. well money and effort spend on educatiopn is never a waste even if there is no monitary gain to educate ones self is the ultimate goal and a person should be proud of the accomplishment. it should not be held against them but supported and encouraged by their peers.

    I have posted many times on this topic and i just find it amazing how often it comes up. why wont nurses learn to be professionals and act like one.

    other professions compensate their workes for education,advanced degrees, work experience it is time for nursing to do the same.
  7. by   patsue53
    I have a BS in English and obtained my ADN the year I turned 40. I also hold certification in gastroenterology nursing. I don't have my BSN because I just don't feel justified spending money for a 2nd bachelor's degree when I have college aged children. Frankly, who needs two bachelor degrees?

    I agree with those who bemoan the nitpicking and bickering about who's the better nurse and who should get paid more. My personal belief is that education should be financially rewarded, be it an advanced degree or certification. I didn't receive a nickel when I passed my certification exam....but I feel it advanced me professionally and gave my self-esteem a boost so there ya go.

    My question is this....when you are working side by side with your co-workers, your team members, your colleagues....can you really distinguish who has an ADN from who has a BSN? And does it really matter? I work with nurses who are highly skilled professionals. The only time their educational status comes up is when we're reminiscing about our college days. I have alot of respect for those who took the time and money and effort to receive their 4 year degree. But I judge a nurse by her professionalism on the job.
  8. by   WalMart_ADN
    Originally posted by mark_LD_RN
    Also to walwart_ADN no one implied ADN were not smart. but your statment " i went to college for 2 yrs graduated with no student loans,now who is smarter?" attitudes and statements like these are just inflammatory. from your post you imply that the money spent for higher education is a waste IE stupid. well money and effort spend on educatiopn is never a waste even if there is no monitary gain to educate ones self is the ultimate goal and a person should be proud of the accomplishment. it should not be held against them but supported and encouraged by their peers.
    umm yeah hi....mark i'm really not to into the whole online-fighting-bickering thing....but I must make an exception at this point. You should totally use that expensive 4 year degree you got to go back and READ my post...i never once said I ever said that to anyone...i think that when i hear people make that little "oh...your ADN?" statement..and other assorted snide remarks. and I KNOW no one ever implied ADN's were not smart, on this board one is that stupid.

    but for the record...i am extremly proud of the degree I have earned. I worked my a$$ off for two straight years, with no summer breaks, graduated, have an amazing job at a huge teaching hospital, and am scheduled to sit for my RN boards (yeah, the same ones you BSN-ers sit for) at the age of 19. Don't knock my credentials, be them very few, because of the way i chose to get them. And i have every intention of getting my BSN degree...when I have worked at this hospital for a year and they pay for it. What better way to go....

    So i encourage you to read back through your post...i believe the quote "to educate ones self is the ultimate goal and a person should be proud of the accomplishment. it should not be held against them but supported and encouraged by their peers."
    fits this rather nicely.

    there is my squabble for the evening. i hope you enjoyed it as must as i did. sorry so long guys!:kiss
  9. by   mark_LD_RN
    walmart adn- you sound a little resentful if you are so proud of your degree why do you feel one is "knocking your credentials"?

    yes you do sit for the same boards if you use your 2 yr degree (just a little take on your statement why dont i use my 4 yr degree to read my posts) read back over my post and see not once did i knock ADN's. you seem to have a classic case of BSN envy.. and to set the record staight i got my BSN in 3 yrs and graduated with no debt thanks to academic scholarship and the hospital i signed contract with to work L&D with right after graduation. i am also an instructor at a local ADN program AND a clinical instructor AT a local BSN program. I was able to do this after one yr of being a nurse thanks to my lowly BSN degree which is a requirement here to teach.

    you need not be so hateful to BSN, we are not all out to get you or insult you.Just as i know not all ADN's share your feelings about BSN nurses. both have its good and bad nurses. maybe once you get a little experience am mature a little you will realize that. then again maybe not,so people never do.

    you as well as all nurses should learn to respect each other and act as professionals. this debate is as old as nursing and will continue for ever if people dont wake up and realize the ramifications it. nurses should be encouraged to increase their education and should be rewared for doing so. If this is not true than ADN,BSN, LPN, diploma nurses should all make the same. and their should be no difference in pay for experience or loyalty to a certain hospital or corporation.

    I did go back and read the post you were refering to and i do not see any where that i knocked your degree,education level or how you obtained it. i just commented on your inflammatory comment of " who is the smart one now"

    education is worth the cost and trouble no matter how one gets it. I have never said anything different.

    i did enjoy the squabble as much as you did.
  10. by   WalMart_ADN
    so many things i could say...and correct you on..but i'm not going to as i hate to see these things dragged out for so long, when in the end NOTHING is accomlished by them. i hope someone can find a cure for my so called BSN envy.... i would hate to spend all my time at work worrying about what degrees others hold instead of taking care of my kids.
  11. by   lynniepooh
    As an LPN, I would love to return to school get my degree and become at the least an associate level RN. But I am in the same boat as many LPN's. It was hard enough to take a year off work for my LPN program. I am a mother and wife and must work full time to help support my family. It is hard to imagine taking the time away from my family to even attend part time. I do feel that with more education should come more financial reward. I respect the hard work and time people put in to obtain the degree.
  12. by   mark_LD_RN
    WALMART ADN go ahead and correct me, please. but DO stick to the FACTS not opinions. I love to be educated and corrected so point out what i have wrong if you can do it factually. You love to accuse some one of knocking you. But it is you who started it.

    i would also hate to spend my time at work worring about others degrees. fun thing is i never bring it up at work i am to busy enjoying my self by taking excellent care of my patients.

    the cure for your BSN envy is with in your self. loose the chip you care on your shoulder and lighten up. no need to be knocking others or infering to them as stupid. that is very unprofessional.
  13. by   NurseAngie
    I don't like mayo OR miracle whip! (sorry, that was another topic!) Geez....this thing has been beaten to DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yada Yada Yada

    I wanna be a ROCK STAR!!!!!