Round of applause for nurses who dont tolerate negative behavior

[jbp0529]

Just wanted to vent a little, I apologize ahead of time...

I recently moved to a smaller, private hospital in one of their ICU's, from a larger teaching hospital. I am appalled how a handful of the docs at this new place treat the nurses. They frequently throw tantrums, curse, whine, expect us to clean up their messes, and/or simply dont want to be bothered with anything. Sound familiar? I know, its a tale as old as time, and the subject of many rants on many posts here, and a problem in many places. However, I'm just having one of those days where I need to vent about it & share some info.

When someone at my facility tries to stand up for themself, the issue is either quietly swept under the rug by management, or the nurse is thrown under the bus and blamed. And this is supposed to be a Magnet facility! To make things worse, instead of nursing having a united front against such behaviors, there are a few influential nurses who have worked there for 15-30 some odd years (my hospital being the only place they have ever worked, in some cases), who are buddy-buddy with these docs, kiss their butts, and take their side in these matters. It's such a disgrace. Whenever I hear one of these nurses say, "well, yea, he/she hung up on you and swore at you, but if it wasnt for Dr So-and-So, we'd have less patients, the hospital would have less $$," and blah blah blah...

...Well that may or may not be true, but nevertheless, it's a cop-out. Nobody should be a doormat to someone else. That certainly can be said of any relationship in life, be it professional or personal.

Anyway, sorry for the long and slightly poisonous post, but my ultimate (and hopefully positive) point is: from one professional nurse to another...thank you to all who take wonderful care of your patients, despite sometimes difficult odds. Thank you for your hard work, on sometimes little rest. Thank you to those who take a stand, who are an advocate to your patients, as well as fellow nurses, and are not always assimilated into the collective.

[WalkieTalkie, RN]

This makes me think of a nurse I work with. She has been an ICU nurse for 25 years or something, and she is very outspoken. If someone treats her like this, she does it right back to them. Once, when one of our private guys started cussing at her on the phone, she pulled out a trash can and threw the phone receiver in it! The doc kept cussing until he realized that nobody was listening.

She has a lot of respect from the docs, and most don't treat her that way more than once. She makes me laugh on a regular basis.

[NurseStudent08]

...Good point of view! love the phone move..will try it some time jaaa:idea:

[LHH1996]

i appreciate this post. i am originally from a very small town where this very thing happened alot. i worked in a SNF attached to a hospital.

for example: one doctor screamed at me over the phone because i called him d/t a change in a patients heart beat that i had noticed and was concerned. it turns out he was angry that i interupted his hunting. His orders were this..."since you think you are such a smart *** and know everything, get an EKG and we'll see how stupid you are!!!" Then he showed up in his camflouge hunting gear because it turned out the patient was declining and needed sent back to ICU...

Another doctor had the nerve to say this...( i actually cried because he was so mean to this patient)..i called him to report increased swelling, decreased mobility, and general c/o pain in the left arm of a resident who was somewhat overweight. The doctor was p**sed that i bothered him to come from Med/surg unit to see the patient..(all i wanted was an xray order)..but anyway..he grabbed me by the arm when he stormed on the unit and said "lets go see her!".

We get into the room and he looked at me ..then the patient..and screamed.."can't you see she is just fat!!!"..i was stunned. he did give me the x ray order anyway because she did say it hurt...well needless to say it was fractured!!!

Godness...i hated those days. ..now i live in a big city and the doctors don't seem so stuck on themselves!!!

[NurseStudent08]

i appreciate this post. I am originally from a very small town where this very thing happened alot. I worked in a snf attached to a hospital.

For example: One doctor screamed at me over the phone because i called him d/t a change in a patients heart beat that i had noticed and was concerned. It turns out he was angry that i interupted his hunting. His orders were this..."since you think you are such a smart *** and know everything, get an ekg and we'll see how stupid you are!!!" then he showed up in his camflouge hunting gear because it turned out the patient was declining and needed sent back to icu...

Another doctor had the nerve to say this...( i actually cried because he was so mean to this patient)..i called him to report increased swelling, decreased mobility, and general c/o pain in the left arm of a resident who was somewhat overweight. The doctor was p**sed that i bothered him to come from med/surg unit to see the patient..(all i wanted was an xray order)..but anyway..he grabbed me by the arm when he stormed on the unit and said "lets go see her!".

We get into the room and he looked at me ..then the patient..and screamed.."can't you see she is just fat!!!"..i was stunned. He did give me the x ray order anyway because she did say it hurt...well needless to say it was fractured!!!

Godness...i hated those days. ..now i live in a big city and the doctors don't seem so stuck on themselves!!!

omh are doctors even allowed to treat nurses and patients like this?? I am starting my nursing program 08/2009...i dont know if i'll be able to tolerate someone call me stupid or grab me by the arm of have my patient be disrespected/ i mean there are lots of ways to express your opinion without saying bad words, i will definitely express mine..after all i am going to have a degree, graduate a university and have an education why would i let someone disrespect me like that?

Because they have an md after their name...hm not enough..i dont care!!:smiley_ab

[LHH1996]

well this was at least 10 years ago...and no they are not..the incident with the grabbing of the arm was actually witnessed. i didn't know it was witnessed until i was pulled in the office and asked what happened if i wanted to persue further action. well stupid me...i was nervous to stand up to him and said no. i was much younger and a new nurse and didn't want to make waves. being olderand wiser..no way i wouldn't have tolerated such behavior.

don't worry..you have the right to stand up for yourself and your patients. like i said it was a small town where everyone knows everyone else and the doctors think they are GOD..

i am also a believer that nasty people get what they deserve in the end. the first doc i mentioned was suspended several years later for medicare fraud...(billing patients he only wrote a 'progress note' on but it was proven he never walked in the room)

Good luck with your career!!!

[traumarns]

we had a similar situation with a doc.

he was a specialist, who was very influential, and made it clear he was to be the ONLY specialist in this particular field who took er call. well the politics of THAT worked for 20+ years, until we absolutely needed him for a very sick pt. turned out she had nec fasc, and needed emergent surgery. he refused to come in. our docs called everybody else under the sun, none of the other docs would see her as she really needed this other dude. there was a group with the same special as said "doctor" but they did not have OR priveldge at our hospital but a nearby sister hospital, and they agreed to get the OR ready at the other hospital, but we had to transfer her. she died the next day. he lost his privelges, not only at our hospital, but at all the hospitals within this system.

eventually these "influential" doctors let their egos do the talking and get themselves in trouble.

hang in there. the tides DO change.

[David13, MSN, RN]

This behavior is, in my experience, generally perpetuated by small minded administrators who look the other way because to actually deal with it would require more effort than they are willing to put forth. Some coworkers, as mentioned by the OP, are also often part of the problem as they become "pets" of these physicians and are benefiting from the situation.

Unfortunately, in hospitals in which this culture is allowed to exist, there is a great deal of frustration for the staff nurse involved. Suport from administration or management will, in many cases, not be forthcoming, and there is always the potential that the situation will be twisted to give the appearance that the nurse is in some way at fault. For this reason, it is always a good idea to document this behavior (in a professional manner, of course) so that you are not later put at blame for the physician's callous and unprofessional behavior and your attempts to provide good care for your patient are made obvious.

It becomes a balancing act as the nurse attempts to be a part of the solution by not tolerating this type of behavior, but also attempts to protect him or herself and their license while at the same time also remaining the patient's advocate. A difficult situation to say the least.

[kishinne]

negative behaviours coming from the physicians often happens...i dont know why the nerve they can act like that,they have this kind of authoritarian attitude,they think they know all. i have known one OB gyne whos very terror, who will really yell at you,say things that will really hurt u as a person which is not right as a professional..even if u try ur best to pleased her still if she doesn't like u,expected to get a very cold expression from her as if she doesn't saw u....actually she's one of the doctor that we hate the most,almost all of the nurses doesn't like her as if her smile is worth a million...sometimes she shared stories about a nurse from other hospital whos very stupid,of course after we heard her telling it to us,what does she think of us to react of course its a shame....what does she think about nurses ,are we all stupid???that is why sometimes we avoid her.........coz we know everytime she has a patient in the hospital that i worked at,i know that for her all the best that we can do for the patient seems not enough for her....she dont trust nurses that much...i don't know why..it will remain a question in my mind....i do hope that she will change for good..

[country mom]

THis type of negative behavior is also shown to be a detriment to patient safety. It simply cannot be tolerated for the sake of patient safety. I'm reading the thread and thinking, "Hmmm, what would Dr. Phil say?" I think he should have a segment on bad doc behavior and how to handle it.

[Medic09, BSN, RN, EMT-P]

Wow, just makes me realize again how fortunate I am.

I'm in the ER, and work with the ER docs, hospitalists, specialists, admitting docs like the Family Practice folks from outside. No one behaves that way with us. Most of the docs are pretty nice, and often say 'thank you'. On one or two occasions in the year and a half that I've been there a doc has been a bit rough on me. Both times they sort of spontaneously vented after I genuinely screwed up and they lost it with their frustration. The last time was recently, and doc wasn't even out of line. Just a sort of 'this patient can't be ruled out without those labs, and this is dangerous having not even sent them for an hour...' Not even much edge in his voice. I didn't blame him. As it is, the other night he came to me and apologized for what I think wasn't even bad behaviour. We work in a high stress environment, and I had dropped the ball. But most of our docs are that decent, and behave like grownups should and sometimes better than that.

I can't say it is just management, because we've had several managers and supervisors come and go in the past few years. We just have a culture of decency like one should be able to expect anywhere.

[gonzo1, ASN, RN]

One of our ER docs got screamed and yelled at by an admitting doc on the phone the other day. I felt so sorry for him because he was really getting treated badly. But half of me kind of grinned because all of us nurses know how this feels.

Our ER doc is really nice though, and didn't deserve this.