religion in the workplace

[elrondaragorn]

There was a ghost story thread about posessed people dying and taunting the nurses after begging them not to let them die. It inspired the question: How many of you are religious, and do you ever offer to pray for or with a patient whose frightened of dying?

[olol765]

I don't consider myself a nurse who is a Christian. I am a Christian who happens to be a nurse. I have prayed for many of my patients, whether they were dying or not. I will ASK them if they want to pray. Almost all of them say yes. A lot of them will say a prayer themselves and they just appreciate someone there to be a "witness".

[elrondaragorn]

I've heard the other side of the annoying supermarket encounters-I've heard of people butting their nose into other people's family lives and making snide remarks to anyone who has the nerve to have more than two kids, and in hospitals there is enormous pressure put on mothers and fathers to sterilize themselves after two kids in spite of the fact that some people believe sterilization is immoral. This is just as much an imposition on other people's beliefs as unwanted proselytizing, and with the proselytizing all you have to do is tell them you aren't interested in talking about religion and excuse yourself.

I have found however that people sometimes welcome such an encounter and are glad to be invited back to church, or to church. There are people who don't want that invitation, but I don't think we should stop extending Church invitations to people just because of the one or two people who are running from God and don't want the invitation. It may be an imposition to those who don't want to be invited, but I don't think people who welcome such an invitation should be denied an invitation to church for fear of running into the people who don't want to be invited to worship God

Arwen_U said:

People who are annoying in the supermarket asking "Have you found Jesus?" etc. are doing what they feel is obedience to Christ's command to go and preach the Good News. Whether they are going about it correctly is, well, up for plenty of debate. My personal feeling is that their intentions may be very good but their methods leave something to be desired, often turning people off to what they are trying to preach.

I feel that 'preaching' the Gospel is best done one-on-one, with someone with whom you've built a relationship. But the best preaching of the Gospel is non-verbal. You set an example. I don't mean this to sound like I have all the answers. I surely don't. And I, being a human being, am NOT always the best example. What I mean to say is that, if you really walk the walk, I've found that people will notice.

In any case, in any faith, I've also found that people don't care what you believe until they believe that you care. THAT is a million-times better witness than walking up to a stranger in a grocery store and asking him if he's 'found Jesus.' Always reminds me of Forrest Gump: "I didn't know I's s'posed to be lookin' for Him."

[elrondaragorn]

It is also a boundary issue to put pressure on people to sterilize themselves and have less kids when they believe contraception is wrong, but lots of Christians are proselytized by population control fanatics in the same, annoying, boundary violating way. i've heard of people being ridiculed in supermarkets for having too many kids, as if they have the right to tell people how many children to have. A woman from Mexico who had trouble concieving finally had a child and they sterilized her against her will bvy tricking her into signing a consent form durring labor

multicollinarity said:

jojotoo,

I don't know what to say if you don't understand why we feel it is rude. It's not like asking if you would like to buy a box of Girl Scout cookies. It's just not. It is a boundary violation, particularly at work.

I responded with my, "Have you all lost him?" statement only once, and that was with a relative. She was persisting in being intrusive despite my polite responses.

I suppose in a perfect world I would be compassionate and light and love 24 hours a day no matter what is said to me. But I'm not. So if someone keeps pushing and pushing and doesn't respect my boundaries, yes you bet I may make a snarky comment.

I find it strange that you aren't acknowledging that we have boundaries. Instead you are protesting our stiff responses to boundary violation? Odd.

[anonymurse]

LadyNASDAQ said:

I have seen 2 Nurses in my career be fired for "Ministering" at work. It is a work ethics issue.

Yes. I'm thinking it's either that or a scope of practice issue. Or both. It's not an issue of providing spiritual services, at least not what NANDA calls spiritual. But let's face it, religion is way different from what NANDA calls spiritual. I believe we're not gonna get away with doing the NANDA dance in court if we were praying according to the tenets of a specific religion.

Say you were a reservist with current qualifications as a combat medic. Still, while working as a RN in the hospital, it would be outside your scope of practice to do an emergency trach.

I mean, if the hospital hired you as a RN, assigned you to a unit as a RN, the charge assigns you to a pt as his RN, then while you're there, in your relationship with that pt, you're a RN and nothing but, so no other scope of practice applies.

Religion, like medicine and law, is a professional practice. If you are ordained and you establish that relationship with the pt, it is outside the boundaries of your terms of employ, so it seems in a sense you are abandoning that pt as a RN. If you were acting as a RN, by definition, you'd be out of scope. Either way, would you figure to be covered by malpractice insurance?

On the other hand, because the ministry is a profession, seems if you are relating to the pt religiously, but you aren't professionally credentialed, you're not capable of having a professional relationship. Then we could only describe any religious relationship you have with the pt as an inappropriate personal relationship.

Even if it happens every day in every hospital across the country, that still doesn't make it appropriate. Not even if you're asked, because of the power differential in the situation, which is that of nurse to patient, in terms of appropriate matter, a narrowly-delimited area.

Let's assume a teen wants you to pray a Christian prayer with him. Simple, right? Not if his parents are Orthodox Jewish, it's not! Or suppose his idea of Christianity and yours are, to him, offensively different in the tender details? That's a mine field. Do what you will, I ain't gonna polka across a mine field.

When a pt needs a trach, we call a doc. We don't do it even if we know how, or even if we're better than the best doc in the hospital. And none of us would do it even if the patient was begging on his knees. We refuse to provide this service. We have properly provided care by calling the doc.

Similarly, it seems we can best provide religious care to the max of our nursing abilities within our scope of practice by calling the chaplain as requested. And this way we will be assured that the proper and appropriate professional relationship will be established and appropriate care rendered.

[Multicollinearity, BSN, RN]

I'm thinking trouble could be avoided in this area by adhering to proper boundaries, acting within the scope of your profession, treating all religious/spiritual beliefs with respect, and following the wishes of the patient regarding spirituality.

[laughing weasel]

I guess that I would ask someone to please not pray to satan/pluto to take my soul anywhere. I would not be offended however. My own philosophy is i am going to heven want to come versus come with me or your going to fry that some people seem to have. There are some lines I do not feel comfortable crossing and i will tell some one before they cross them if possible. I have always believed that freewill trumps dogma any day. I try very hard to respect other peoples beliefs no matter how stupid and obviously wrong they are because they may feel the same way about mine. that does not mean that I wont do everything in my power to help though even if it is just to hold some ones hand while the pray to some heathen idol. i do agree that it is wrong to pretend that you believe something that you do not that lowers yourself and betrays the pts trust in you also.