Nurse Impersonators

[NancyRN]

Am I the only one who resents the "nurse impersonators" who abound in the health care field?

Everyone who works at a doctor's office or in a hospital wears scrubs and seems to pass themselves off as a nurse. Of course, the hospital doesn't mind. Visitors and patients don't realize how few nurses are actually on the unit if the unit clerks, nursing assistants, housekeepers, and technicians are all wearing scrubs.

It seems harmless enough, this generic flowered jacketed scrub outfit, until you think of the harm it does to nurses' reputation as a whole. I just wonder what people think when they see two or three "nurses" ambling around the hallways or sitting at the nurses station while their family member waits for pain medication!

I have to think the doctor's offices are the worst. The doctors will actually refer to the medical assistant as "the nurse". I wonder if a doctor would appreciate an employee passing himself off as a doctor?

Last month I was in a doctor's waiting room with my son when a man came in holding his hand wrapped in a towel. He announced that he'd cut his hand and needed to see the doctor ( ok- dont ask me why he didn't go to the ER!) . The "nurse" told him to have a seat. The waiting room was crowded and it was obvious he was in for a very long wait. I saw the towel becoming saturated, and I couldn't help going over to him and telling him to hold his hand above heart level, apply pressure, try some deep breathing, etc. I told the "nurse" to let him go in and be seen, but she said, "He has to wait his turn, it wouldnt be fair to the patients who had appointments."

Driving home, my son asked, "Why didn't that nurse help that man?" I told him, "Because she's not a nurse!" But I wonder how many people in that waiting room went home with the story of the nurse who wouldnt help a bleeding man.

I know nurses don't want to go back to the days of wearing caps (even though I love my cap), but shouldn't we be more concerned about people in scrubs making us look bad? Shouldn't a nurse on duty be as easily recognizable as an EMT, a Firefighters, or a Police Officer?

[Q.]

Oh my god - that is very, very incorrect!

LPNs are licensed professional nurses; Medical Assistants are just that, assistants that hold a certificate of completion. They are not licensed by the state nor are they monitored by any governing body that grants them ability to "practice."

And yes, in California, Medical Assistants are "capped" as a form of graduation. Read some posts by Jessy earlier on. When she graduated, they were capped and wore all white.

I think we "allow" this to happen because there is nothing we can do to stop them.

Sorry to say, but I see the nursing profession dying. If the boomers and the docs want Medical Assistants taking care of them - let 'em! I don't care anymore. The humiliation the nursing profession goes through on a daily basis is getting ridiculous. Enough is enough! I emailed by BON last week and haven't heard a peep. They don't care, therefore, I don't either anymore.

[135ctv]

Thank you for clarifying.

I always wondered why medical assistants would also work as CNAs if as they say their training is equivelent to that of an LPN.

I have noticed in reading through employment ads that medical assistants seem to be paid less than LPNs. Is the decision to hire a medical assistant rather than an LPN based on cost?

It is amazing (and scary) how many virtually unskilled people can work in the medical field.

I ran into a similar situation when I looked into becoming a PCA (personal care attendant). PCAs are hired by someone who needs medical care in the home. While a PCA can be a CNA or an HHA, they are not required to have any training or certification. They are not under the control of the state agency which licences nurses and credentials Home Health Aides or CNAs.

One PCA job involved administering medications through a stomach tube another involved clearing a trach tube. I have not had any training or experience in either of these. Needless to say, I turned down both jobs.

PCAs are paid $6-8/hr while CNAs and HHAs make $8-15/hr. I believe PCAs are paid under a medicaid waiver.

It frightens me to think that untrained personnel can perform nursing duties in private homes, especially without any nursing supervision.

Both jobs that I looked into referred to me as a "nurse". I explained that I wasn't a nurse and explained the difference. Both agencies who had referred me to the jobs were not happy that I had clarified this.

I am concerned that people who employ PCAs may actually think that they have a nurse when, in reality, that person may be qualified for little more than counter help at a fast food restaurant.

[Adelai]

Wow,

I start my CNA training next week and was SOOOO excited, never once did it cross my mind that I would be on the same level as an RN, LPN or even the same level as a more experienced CNA. I guess the only thing that was crossing my mind was to help a patient in need, and as a CNA if thats bathing and wiping then so be it, if that offers alittle more comfort to someone I would feel important....

I agree that nurses should be recognized for what they are, and there should be some code to show who is an RN, or LPN and CNA. If I have to walk around the hospital in what was it "ugly pea green scrubs" that are the same color as the soiled linen bags? (as one person said we should) As a CNA, then fine, I agree and I'll do that....and would I agree with patients and nurses that I don't have crap for training? You betcha. Because I would be proud of where I was at the moment and what I have done. And I would NEVER want a patient looking at me thinking that girls is a nurse why isn't she doing something...or thats my nurse why won't she help me? When I am a CNA I will make it perfectly clear what I am and what I am expected to do and what I'm not. Why? becuase it would look worse on me then anyone else.

And I agree with most of you, that its upsetting to hear someone who had a month of training say they are a nurse and compare themselves to you...it is wrong and can be extremely dangerous. I just hope you keep an open mind to new people like me coming into the field, I would never compare myself to anyone for that matter....I would never feel comfortable saying something I'm not. I would never have a patient depend on me for something I can not do, that is totally against my code of ethics. I just hope you give everyone a chance... because now I am extremely nervous, and hope that people I will work with will at least give me that much....

And I did see a post by a person saying that people are only CNA's becuase they don't want the schooling or don't have what it takes......please feel free to email in the years to come. Some CNA's may be like that, some CNA's may want to stay just that a CNA....does it really matter? no. The reason I'm starting as a CNA is becuz their is no better training then on the job training...but I plan on going as far as the lord will allow me, if thats only a CNA so be it, if its a doctorate in nursing so be it. I will be proud of myself no matter what.

and I have seen posts making fun of CNA's becuz they are so low on the food chain, and I have seen posts make fun of nurses who just came out of 4 years of school and have no idea what the hell they are doing.....and I have talked to nurses who think both ways...and I know the majority of you out there don't think this. All I ask is that no matter how far in schooling I get...I hope I get treated with the same respect I TREAT people with not what other past nurses or CNAS have done.

To all the Nurses (be it Rn, LPN, or others I haven't quite leaned yet..:))..... You have come far in life, I don't have the personal experience...but I have heard how hard nursing school can be and of course the profession in its self, and if it means anything.....I admire all of you, place you all on a pedastel, and I could only hope and work (very hard) at reaching what you have...I just hope that along the way

if I make a mistake or even if I don't..that one of you will be there to take me under your wing, show me what it takes to be a nurse and help me be the best I can be.

[Carer]

I work as a Care Assistant to the Elderly. The other night on the local news station. [i live In England] There was a report about Bougas Care workers in Care Homes. I feel it is very unfair to real Care Workers like myself and many other Medical staff. As this is the sort of thing that makes the rules and regulations so much more complex and in some cases harder to find work. Haven't people got better things to do with there time other then impersonate Medical/ Care staff. It just makes me mad that is all. Does anyone agree.

[Jacaut]

Just for the record, I have corrected a number of people who've called me a nurse both as a CNA and while in clinicals. I'm a nursing student- not a nurse. Won't even let my family call me nurse yet. As for scrubs- they make a lot of sense to me for adjunct staff as well as nurses. The uniform of medical personnel should be non-street clothes. Scrubs are treated to resist soiling, are comfortable for movement, and are not worn on the streets- containing, to some degree, bacterial transmission.

Nursing assistants have been described to me as nursing staff- not nurses. They do basic care. It's the same stuff you go over your first semester of nursing school, in case some of you have forgotten.

Color coding makes absolute sense. Embroidered titles reduce confusion, but we all have to be sure and tell people who we are- remember, there are many people who have poor eyesight or reading skills. If you want to be treated with respect, you have to behave in a respectful fashion. Clothes are only a small part of being a good nurse. The person who intervened on behalf of the bleeding patient did a great job. Making a bigger fuss to get the kid seen might have been a good idea also, but sometimes we don't speak up as we should. I'm still working on that skill.

Peace,

Jackie

[WalMart_ADN]

okay

I was reading a magazine tonight and i came across one of those sally-struthers-mail-me-some-money-and0i'll-send-you-your-diploma things and one of the degree's offered was a medical office assistant. Now, we don't utilize medical assistants in our hospital (the one we have clinicals in) but am I too assume that this is the same kind of medical assistant we are talking about here? Is this magazine telling me that they can get their quote-unqoute "degree" throught the MAIL with NO patient exposure at ALL?

Definately NOT comprable to a nurse, RN or LPN, and i wouldn't say comparable to a certified nurses aide either.

But I digress....scrubs was the topic, right?

[SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN]

Originally posted by Peeps Mcarthur

I wonder if they would all like to impersonate the mandatory overtime, impossible pt loads, stringent guidelines.........etc,etc.

I'm not yet a nurse, but once I am you can bet your a** they won't be pulling that crap around me for too long.

I've experienced the same opportunity because of a shirt and tie or a 3/4 length labcoat as a respiratory therapist(I was really CRTT).

I was called nurse, DR, PT....you name it.

Nurses are just as guilty!

It is routine.........YOU ALL DO IT.........to call all respiratory personell RT(as in therapist) or call all personell respiratory tech(as in CRTT).

One is a technician, CRTT. One is a therapist, RT. The credentials for RT are much more difficult to obtain(at least ten years ago when I was on the floors) and this makes them feel disrespected.

Check it out. Listen a few times when respiratory is addressed. you'll be amazed to find out thier true identities!

Wow...but you're absolutely right!!! I never gave it a second thought (the differences between CRTT/RT); however, after reading your post, I now know & will be more mindful to take notice in the future....

[NancyRN]

I don't call them RT or CRTT. When a patient is in trouble I CALL RESPIRATORY! They always arrive fast and always know their stuff. Thanks, y'all! And you can bet I'll be paying more attention now to those letters on the badge.

[SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN]

Originally posted by colleen10

Even though I'm not a nurse yet I completely understand why a nurse would be at the least disgruntled by these nurse impersonators.

As someone who has had experience going into the hospital and clinical setting as a patient, for not only myself but also with relatives, I think that the "impersonators" not only do damage to the nursing professions persona as a whole but also to the general publics trust or lack of trust for the medical field.

Advertising your position such as Medical Assistant, LPN, or RN - I really don't think that a layperson would understand the increasing degrees of education, knowledge, and experience that is required for each. If a person is sick or concerned about a patient all they want is to talk to a medical professional to get the situation under control and ensure that they are going to be taken care of. If a layperson were to see "Medical Assistant" on a name badge they would probably assume that since it says "Medical" on it that person should be able to offer help. The same way an RN would.

A "layperson" or someone with little or no background in the medical field would see anyone in scrubs as a person with medical knowledge. Can you imagine a worried and stressed out relative of a patient going up to a janitor, secretary, or MA(dressed in scrubs) asking pertinent medical questions and then that janitor or secretary trying to answer them? Can you imagine what that relative must be thinking! Either they will believe what ever the secretary or janitor is saying and later be dismayed when they find out the information they were given was incorrect. Or, if they catch on that the person they are speaking with doesn't have that much knowledge in the medical field they will think "What kind of place have I brought my relative to? The nurses don't know anything!"

This problem is more far reaching than I think "impersonators" give it credit.

As for the man with the serious cut who went to his regular doctor's office... Last year I was sent to a new Primary Care Physician because of insurance changes. When I went to the doctor's office to have a case of poison ivy taken care of I was instructed that if I should ever have any type of "Emergency Situation" I should go to the doctors' office rather than the nearest ER because the doctor's would see me faster than waiting around in the busy ER. Unfortunately, for this particular gentlemen it doesn't seem to have made much of a difference.

I agree completely... But a lot of the problem, IMHO, stems from the medical community...MDs & their organization - AMA! Who was it that created this new phenomenon anyway: MA (Medical Assistants), MT (Medical Technicians), ET (Emergency Technicians), ST (Surgical Technicians), DT (Dental Technicians), VT (Veterinarian Technicians), PA (Physician Assistants)...you know what I mean... Nurses have worked extremely hard to get the respect that they deserve for their knowledge...and there's a variety of levels from LPNs to RN-ADN/MSN/PhD/ED/DSN, etc. The AMA has decided that they rather give script power to the newly PAs because they developed the idea, have direct control over them, & have made them members of the AMA. MDs/PAs have banned together to have various SBON, nation wide, place limits on or keep script power from the Advanced Practice Nurses (@ least in the state of PA). They would rather have MAs/PAs by their side because they thought of the position & to further demean the nursing profession which somehow is supposed to elevate the MAs/PAs respectability...I think not!!!

I realize that there is a huge difference in the level of education between MAs/Techs/PAs, but doesn't it bother you that all of a sudden, many LPNs are being replaced in hospital settings by various MAs & Med Techs. Even worse, LPNs titles are no longer being recognized by hospitals whom have chose to elimate their position entirely! Or how about the LPNs/RNs being replaced by MAs & PAs in privite practice? Now hospitals wonder why there's nursing shortages...give me a break!

Without stepping on any of the above Techs toes, it was the nurse whose primarily assisted the MDs in their practice (in offices & in patients' homes), in the OR suites, & on the hospital units prior to the Techs positions even cropping-up... The real reasons that a lot of these positions were created in the first place is that hospitals & MDs wanted to avoid paying the nurses' salaries...not that we were paid exuberant amount of money to begin with. They thought the nurses as liabilities as far as cost because nurses weren't the money base (it was the MDs & their patients' money), and saw the opportunity to have other people do a lot of their duties; but for much less...!

It's no wonder that many of the Assistants/Techs feel that they have a right to think the way that they do...they're encouraged!!!

[RNKitty]

Originally posted by 135ctv

It frightens me to think that untrained personnel can perform nursing duties in private homes, especially without any nursing supervision.

Actually, the unlicensed personnel can be trained to do certain nursing tasks in the home setting. The laws allow this so that parents can take care of handicapped children (those who need gastric tubes, stable vent care, etc.). The people still have to be taught to do the skill. This doesn't mean they are a nurse, but it allows for a more family friendly environment for the children - they don't have to be institutionalized.

[SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN]

Originally posted by Susy K

While I think Bush has good intentions, I don't think getting "bodies" to fill the gaps is going to solve ANY problem. We need to attract top quality, highly educated, motivated people to the profession!

Example: my co-worker's 16 year old daughter who is a junior in high school was meeting with her high school advisor on plans after high school. The girl has a 3.7 GPA and is a very, very bright girl. The advisor is recommending she apply to MIT, Northwestern and Harvard for enginnering, etc. She has the grades for it and can write her ticket - AND she is interested in engineering. The question is....why is NOT interested in nursing? We could use a bright girl like her and others like her! Her advisor under no circumstances would recommend nursing to her and sadly so, I can see why. It would almost waste her talent and intelligence, with the way nursing is now.

Bringing Mexicans across the border isn't going to solve the problem - it can only worsen it in my opinion.

I understand what you mean when it comes to our young talent...but to single-out Mexican nurses is a topic for another thread!!! Lets just discuss the topic of this thread before it goes off on a wrong path again...

[SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN]

Originally posted by NancyRN

And I, too, think doing away with our caps was the beginning of the dilution process for nurses. I do wear a cap some days when I do agency in a nursing home. Patients love it. It never really gets in my way. Guys could wear a "Guy" cap...I don't know the answer but we need to find one fast!

I agree, why not wear white scrubs, dresses, & dear I say, CAPS...:) I realize that the males have no caps for them & suspect that they wouldn't wear them because they have no identity with them; even if several male style were designed...perhaps but I doubt it.. During nurses' week at my facility, we set aside one day where the nurses wear all whites along with their caps. Two of the males nurses got into the act & donned a paper cap speacially made for them though. You should see the resident's faces light-up... And guess what else, our facility honored nurses & CNAs with flowers during their designated weeks... Where I work, nurses' week belong to the nurses & CNAs' week belong to them...at least my facility can do at least this right!!:chuckle

I noticed that when everyone was in white, they seem to walk more erectly (maybe due to the caps on our heads), kept their uniforms cleaner, use correct grammar amongst our selves, & even cleaned-up the profanity too...:imbar And all the school PINs were dug out of the jewerly boxes and worn...everyone who chose to participate really got into the spirit of the day. One nurse even wore a cape...:) There was a lot of laughs along with a lot of pride.!!! There were no nurses eatting anyone that day...that's for sure.

I realize wearing white is difficult not to mention boring for most so the other suggestion regarding wearing 3/4 length lab coats with our school's PIN on it along side of the name tag in addition to having a patch on the sleeve maybe the answer.