Am I the only one who resents the "nurse impersonators" who abound in the health care field?
Everyone who works at a doctor's office or in a hospital wears scrubs and seems to pass themselves off as a nurse. Of course, the hospital doesn't mind. Visitors and patients don't realize how few nurses are actually on the unit if the unit clerks, nursing assistants, housekeepers, and technicians are all wearing scrubs.
It seems harmless enough, this generic flowered jacketed scrub outfit, until you think of the harm it does to nurses' reputation as a whole. I just wonder what people think when they see two or three "nurses" ambling around the hallways or sitting at the nurses station while their family member waits for pain medication!
I have to think the doctor's offices are the worst. The doctors will actually refer to the medical assistant as "the nurse". I wonder if a doctor would appreciate an employee passing himself off as a doctor?
Last month I was in a doctor's waiting room with my son when a man came in holding his hand wrapped in a towel. He announced that he'd cut his hand and needed to see the doctor ( ok- dont ask me why he didn't go to the ER!) . The "nurse" told him to have a seat. The waiting room was crowded and it was obvious he was in for a very long wait. I saw the towel becoming saturated, and I couldn't help going over to him and telling him to hold his hand above heart level, apply pressure, try some deep breathing, etc. I told the "nurse" to let him go in and be seen, but she said, "He has to wait his turn, it wouldnt be fair to the patients who had appointments."
Driving home, my son asked, "Why didn't that nurse help that man?" I told him, "Because she's not a nurse!" But I wonder how many people in that waiting room went home with the story of the nurse who wouldnt help a bleeding man.
I know nurses don't want to go back to the days of wearing caps (even though I love my cap), but shouldn't we be more concerned about people in scrubs making us look bad? Shouldn't a nurse on duty be as easily recognizable as an EMT, a Firefighters, or a Police Officer?
This thread is emcompassing a lot of nurse and medical issues, isn't it? I love it!! Students,CNA's, PCA's and MA's= please don't mistake venting for hostility....I don't think any of us resent an individual, just the situation because nurses feel so undervalued today. I pray today's student nurses will have a different experience than I have had--I am excited by some of the changes I see particularly in the strong nurse union states. California in particular...you GO Cal. nurses!!
I like ICU because it's usually all nurse staffed and this will probably not change much. I do see LPN's being phased out of many facilities today and that is so, so unfortunate. I do see this as a money and control issue. RN's on medsurg floors will be supervising dangerously large groups of UAP's unless nurses force the issue (like the California nurses did) and make it illegal to surpass nurse patient ratios.
I do believe in theory the ANA position paper was on the right track as far as the professional nurse role. Just wish there had been a cohesive effort to unite nurses and assist ADN and diploma nurses to get that BSN. We have to pay an arm and a leg, our credits won't transfer, etc. So many hoops to jump through! ANA lobbying efforts are behind closure of good schools who were trying to grow into a BSN program. My old school was successfully eliminated in this fashion after 105 years of turning out great RN's. Too bad. Diploma schools merged into a BSN program would give student nurses the best of both education worlds!
Some areas now 'registering' their MA's. So they're RMA's. Sounds a little close to RN doesn't it? Money, control and the medical model vs the nursing model. But what to do??
Thank you. I have helped to orient aides in the past and have enjoyed that. I think that I would also enjoy being an instructor, but to do that requires that I be an RN. I think that my interest lies more in being an aide than pursuing nurses training.
I perhaps have a different outlook because this is a second career for me. Prior to becoming an aide, I earned a master's degree and worked in the business world for 20 years. This is something that I always wanted to pursue, and I'm glad I made the change. I have been a CNA for approximately one year now and have no desire to return to my previous profession.
Actually, with a masters degree in business, or any field for that matter, you certainly can TEACH!!! Not nursing of course but perhaps other CNAs. Nurses teach in their inservices to other nurses; why then can't you teach inservices to other CNAs??? After all, you're on the same scope of practice level...:) A bet a lot of our mouths just hit the floor when we all read your credentials!!!
Well you certainly taught me & I bet a lot of others something; I never even considered anyone with your credentials choosing this for a second perfession. And yes I choose to say profession because I can see that you're intensely proud of what your doing, have the wisdom to know not to over step your scope of practice, & that you've obviously made wise financial decisions while in the busniess sector in order to take the pay cut!!! I have to tell you that you're a perfect example of not judging a book by its cover... That's for sure. Keep your positive attitude for I'm sure it will rub off...
I doubt anyone would like to go back to the days when female nurses wore caps, and you could differentiate an RN from an LPN by the black band that the RN wore on her cap, but there you have it. I was probably one of the last group of nurses graduated (in the early 1970's) when caps were still mandatory. I recall the arguments in the professional literature, that caps were somehow degrading, that a professional should be identifiable by what is in her head, not what is on it, etc, etc, etc. Thirty years later I count it as no surprise that because of the lack of a readily identifiable visual cue we are no longer easily identifiable as nurses particularly by those who don't know better.
I guess the problem set in front of us is how do we get a visual identifier across without reverting to caps?
Color coding doesn't really work particularly when one is ill, on medications with sensory-altering effects, and really too tired to pay much attention to the chirpy orientation literature. I dress in street clothes with a lab coat and have been mistaken for everything from a doctor to the TV sales representative despite my prominently displayed ID badge (worn with a clip so it is always displayed, not on a lanyard where it can twist and turn,) my nursing school pin, and a gold initial pin that says "RN." When I reverted to white or colored scrubs I was mistaken for a slew of other departmental employees.
Short of emblazoning "RN" on the front and back of scrubs (the way they print "County Jail" on the orange scrubs prisoners wear) I can't think of any realistic solutions.
I think it is a pity that so much talent and expertise has to be wasted in efforts to get the public to recognize who we are. At least years ago (dear God, I sound like my great aunt, a now deceased nurse, rest her soul) the public could pick us out of a group of people.
Are CNA's professionals??? I had never considered them as such but when nurses see them as professionals then why wouldn't they be classified as nurses, if they are professionals.
Interesting point. Lawyers, religious ministers and teachers are also considered professionals; they are NOT nurses - they have a different role and fill a different need. So too with CNAs. A good CNA is a precious commodity - they often recognise many of the issues nurses are trained to deal with and thus can make a nurse's job easier by reporting symptoms and other issues which the nurse may not have been aware of (since the CNA does spend more time during showers, etc). But they have not been trained to assess or to deal with these symptoms, and don't have legal authority to manage them, any more than nurses have legal authority to prescribe medication (with the possible exception of specialist nurse practitioners in some areas).
It seems to me that really a bigger problem is the ersatz nurses in the clinics and doctor's offices. NA or tech in hospital is not going to attempt to administer meds.
How does a CNA or CMA get trained to give meds in the doc's office??? I may have already posted about the MA who gave a pt a Rx for Ampicillin instead of Ativan. I'd overheard the whole thing when the patient came back for another visit and her family were saying she was MORE nervous than she was before she started the medicine! And this was in an office where they have the computerized Rx system - the "Nurse" just prints a scrip off from the computer system and stamps it with the doc's signature stamp. Great for legibility, not so good for catching things like this.
I'd have thought the computer system would help with cutting out mistakes like this, but obviously SOMEBODY needs to look at the Rx before it leaves the office!!!
I've seen in another doc's office, MA's administer IV medications. Start the IV, mix the med and administer it!!!
I don't like that one little bit. I mean, I've learned my lesson - if ever I'm in a doc's office and some "nurse" is going to give me an injection, *I* can demand to see the vial it's drawn up from, making sure that the med, dose and all that seem reasonable in my *professional* opinion. What about the rest of us, who go to the doctor, and not only don't know that this person is indeed Not a nurse, but don't have the experience and education to know that Amoxicillin isn't going to help my nerve problem?
I'm thinking that in hospital situation, it's not a good thing, but it's not as dangerous as where there really ARE no RN's to supervise these MA's
And (upon further thought) I have a big complaint about at least one of the "colleges" that turn out these MA's!
There are TV commercials here for one school, and it just makes me grit my teeth! They do EVERYTHING wrong! They show the students measuring someone's height with his cap on!! They show the students practicing CPR on another REAL PERSON!!!!!!!! I can't remember anything else, but I think that's plenty!
I am currently a Medical Assistant and working on my nursing degree. I believed that it would be an expansion of the knowledge that I felt that I already had. Boy was I wrong. It is an entirely different concept. One of the rules that I have made for myself is that when a patient asks if I am a nurse, I always respond, "No, I am a Medical Assistant, but I hope to be a nurse soon."
I have, so many times, heard others in my office refer to, basically anyone in the office, as a nurse. It always bothered me before, but now it drives me nuts.
Although, I have worked very hard for 16 years as a Medical Assistant, it is no comparison to what I am doing now and I am not even done yet. I want to EARN the title of Registered Nurse and hope to have made it clear to the others in my office that, until that time, I am still a Medical Assistant.
If others wish to give themselves the title of nurse, then let them be the ones to explain their lack of credentials to a judge when a patient has been misled or, heaven forbid, becomes injured.
There is always so much dislike portrayed for anyother healthcare profession than Rn and BSn on this board. If you're a CNA, EMT, CMA, tech or lab person, you're no good because, quite frankly, your NOT an RN. Goodness. What would you do without the CNA's to take the brunt of your work off your shoulders? Would you be able to function without them? Damn right you wouldn't. do you have time to do assessments, care, paperwork, draw blood AND run the labs yourself, feed your patient, take them to the bath room, bathe them, dress them..all this times 15 or however many pts you care for? can you really do it by yourself? Oh, I forgot, you're an RN= the only good healthcare professional according to this board!
I know several people who have devoted their life to healthcare, as PCA's and CNA's and their neighbors and patients call them "nurses" because these caretakers did nurse thier patients. They cared for them, loved them, tended them and did all the dirty work noone else wanted to do....for far less money than the RN made for filling out the care report and being an highly paid secretary. A Nurse is someone who loves, and cares and goes teh extra step for their patient. An RN is a registered nurse. Anyone calling themself an RN, without having earned the degree, is at fault...but many people are nurses in their hearts and in their actions.
Rn's in the clinic setting are losing their ground. Unless there is the need for IV's, they are not needed. You're just mad because the CMA's are pushing you out. Degrade them as you will, it's true and I'm sure many of them are doing a damn fine job! I've seen how you all bad mouth LPN's, too, so face it.... you're stuck on yourselves becaue your RN's. RN's belong in the hospital. That is where they are the most needed. Doctor's recognize the value of a good CMA...they can wrap two or three different professions into one and do it well. Like all professions, there are the good and the bad. My clinic has bumped all RN's except the lead triage RN and the chemo nurse. We simply don't need staff RN's working with our doctors. There is nothing they can do that the CMA's can't. So, now all you RN's getting passed over for the clinic job are mad because it's back to the hospital you go. Sorry...they don't need your 4 year degree to "take vitals and room patients". I'm sure any CMA off the street can do that, right?? Get a life! This board makes me so mad.
I want to see you all run your job without your ancillary staff. That' right They are NOT RN's. If they wanted to be they would have went to RN school.
Whoa, ease up. The title of this thread is NURSE IMPERSONATORS. It is not "Chew up other health care workers and spit them in the dust". We are talking about people who, by legal definition, cannot call themselves a nurse, and yet mislead their patients into believing they are a nurse. We are not devaluing the work that other care providers offer.:)
Hi Nancy. I could not agree more concerning what the dress code at the hospital setting has done to our profession in more ways then one. i just replied to a post earlier concerning a disgruntled nurse being upset over having to wear whites. I, for one, would relish the thought of other staff/clients/ significant others of clients knowing who the RN's are by our dress code again. I was informed quite some time ago that the hospitals etc. did not mind others visiting their facility not knowing who the workers are because there are so many unskilled employes doing what the professionals used to do. I guess it all boils down to corporate greed. I also am all for making the staff keep shortened nails due to all the bacteria they can harbor. I would like to have the respect I remember RNs having in the past. I have heard some refer to the way some nurses dress as looking like ladies of the evening. Yes, I have also seen some with mini skirts, long dangling earrings, hair teased excessively and long red-painted nails. Wow, sure does'nt look professional. Well, I guess I have spoken my piece concerning scrubs vs dress to be able to identify who the RNs are vs impersonators. Best wishes Nancy. :>))
I assume that you're a CMA? I think you're looking at this as an "us vs them" issue. I don't see it that way.
Doesn't it occur to you that the CMA's in the clinics and private practice office are being given the same responsibilities that the RN's have always had? Does that strike you as fair and reasonable? I don't!
I am an RN. I was a tech (NA in hospital) and my training was repeated over and over "ask the nurse." As an RN, I don't relish having to make decisions that SHOULD be made by a doc. Okay, I press my opinion on the docs when it seems reasonable, but by Heaven, I know when I'm over my head. I've been known to tell the doc when he either a) asked what I wanted to do or b) told me to do what I wanted "Get your bum up here and act like a doctor."
I have worked with some of the best techs in the world. They gave and give nursing care in the best, truest and most noble sense of the word. They *don't* administer medications, they *don't* make nursing diagnoses, they *don't* start, regulate, adjust, or stop IV's. They do enjoy a professional working relationship with the nurses, doctors and patients.
I don't think we should fight amongst ourselves. I just don't think that people who don't have licensure should start, adjust IV's and nobody without a license should administer meds. Who benefits from that??
Not only have I been a CMA for 6 years, I'm also an EMT and an RN student. I am frustrated at the whole start of this post because it has, once again, turned into a CMA bashing ground. I know several CMA's who come here as nursing students, looking for advice and encouragement and all they get is degraded. NO, I am NOT a nurse. I do not call myself a nurse. I DO triage. I Do invasive* procedures ( oh my!), like meds...even narcs...shame on me...and cathing. I give immunizations and IM antibiotics. I give allergy shots. Why? Because I have an Associate of Applied Science degree and a 9 month externship that trained me how. I have a state and national certification that says I'm competent and capable. I have an MD by my side if I ever have a question. I have an EMT registry that says I know something about emergency medicine. I go to countless CME to keep current, and know more about meds than some of my coworkers. And I have an RN superivsior who reveiws all of my triaging calls with me if I ever have a question. I am not incompetent or a blumbling idiot because I am just a CMA. I have the pleasure of working with 4 RN's in our combined hosl\pital/clinic who were CMA's before they were RN's and they are the only nurses I have ever known who have respect for what I am. I am a CMA because I wanted to be. I do my job well and frankly, I'm sick of this board hashing it out over CMA's. I know this was started as a nurse impersonator board...but guess who got cut on first. Yep, the lowly, unskilled, " I don't like them very much" CMA.
As an RN I hope I always remember what I did before I got that golden, all-mighty nursing degree. And I hope I never, ever, ever, cut down on the MA's in my office they way this board does.
If you call my office and get me in the triage room, chances are I will be able to help you, recognize your problem, or answer your question as well as the RN. If I can't, guess what? I'll have her take the call, or immediately check with my supervising MD like a responsible person would. Just for the record, I triaged a call the other day from a woman complaining of a headache. At the end of the call, I had sent her an ambulance.., she had had an MI. I listened, I analyzed, I used medical judement and formed an impression....not because I'm an RN, but because I'm a skilled, trained medical professional.
I hope to have my RN degree finished next year. Maybe then you'll all recognize me as an actual medical professional. Maybe then I can come here and not be as truely offended and disheartned as I am now. Until then, I doubt I'll be visiting again. Great, I've vented. Somehow I feel worse.
Am I the only one who resents the "nurse impersonators" who abound in the health care field? 
I have to tell you that you're a perfect example of not judging a book by its cover...
mattsmom81
4,516 Posts
This thread is emcompassing a lot of nurse and medical issues, isn't it? I love it!! Students,CNA's, PCA's and MA's= please don't mistake venting for hostility....I don't think any of us resent an individual, just the situation because nurses feel so undervalued today. I pray today's student nurses will have a different experience than I have had--I am excited by some of the changes I see particularly in the strong nurse union states. California in particular...you GO Cal. nurses!!
I like ICU because it's usually all nurse staffed and this will probably not change much. I do see LPN's being phased out of many facilities today and that is so, so unfortunate. I do see this as a money and control issue. RN's on medsurg floors will be supervising dangerously large groups of UAP's unless nurses force the issue (like the California nurses did) and make it illegal to surpass nurse patient ratios.
I do believe in theory the ANA position paper was on the right track as far as the professional nurse role. Just wish there had been a cohesive effort to unite nurses and assist ADN and diploma nurses to get that BSN. We have to pay an arm and a leg, our credits won't transfer, etc. So many hoops to jump through! ANA lobbying efforts are behind closure of good schools who were trying to grow into a BSN program. My old school was successfully eliminated in this fashion after 105 years of turning out great RN's. Too bad. Diploma schools merged into a BSN program would give student nurses the best of both education worlds!
Some areas now 'registering' their MA's. So they're RMA's. Sounds a little close to RN doesn't it? Money, control and the medical model vs the nursing model. But what to do??
Great thread guys!