Never understood nursing

Nurses General Nursing

Published

I know this is my first post on your forum, and I am a guest here. But I hopefully can get some answers to a problem that has seemed to plague me since I started practicing in medicine. I am hoping that you will be honest enough to tell me why things have gotten to where they are. And by the way, my wife is an EM nurse. That is how we met.

I started in emergency medicine 10 years ago in NY. I spent 10 years prior in EMS, and also did a residency in EM for two years after graduating PA school. I have a fairly decent background. Right out of school, I worked in 4 EDs. One hospital in Brooklyn, on my first day, the charge nurse and two others came up to me and said "You are the new PA, let's get one thing straight, we have 4 year degrees, you have a 4 year degree, you are no better than us. You need labs drawn, x-rays put in, IV started, you do them yourself. It's bad enough we have to do them for the doctors, we are certainly not going to do them for you". They were called into the ED directors office the next day. They brought the union who threatened to have the whole hospital walk out if the director had anything to say to the nurses. Then at another hospital in NY, I had nurses tell me and the docs what procedure they would "allow us" to perform on our patients. They ripped up my prescriptions right in front of me and told me when they would not "allow me" to give out narcotics. In Virginia, large level 1 trauma center, they refused to do UAs on most patients. They didn't feel the test to be important. I had them tell me if my UA was so important, "are your legs broke, why can't you get it from the patient and walk it down to the lab?" They played passive aggressive for years, not giving my cardiac patients nitro or morphine for up to 2 hours consistently, answering "I heard you, put the chart in the rack and I will get to it when I get to it". Of course they refused to allow me access to the Pyxis to get the meds myself. I had them yell at me whe I wrote parameters for Cardazem for BP. They told me I was to assume ALL nurses know parameters and how dare I question their knowledge. They then told me they will question all of my orders for at least one year until I prove myself to them. That seemed to be a reoccurring theme in most ED.

I have war stories that I could go on for at least 10 pages. I have just touched the tip of the iceberg. So after almost 10 years of this and 10 emergency departments, I got to the point that I started to hate nurses in general, and thought that this is what I could expect for the rest of my career. Then of all places, I came to Las Vegas. I asked about the nurses here. I was told the same as all of my other hospitals (no one ever tells you how bad things really are as you would never take on a new position there if you knew). But to my surprise, it has been the best experience I have ever had. They are so nice, so professional. There are no power struggles. We all work together. What a difference when I get up every day to come to work.

So what gives? I have never seen a profession where so many are hateful, unprofessional, uncaring about their responsibilities (patients) and could care less about how little they are performing their jobs. This did not appear to be the minority in any of the places I had previously worked. Have I just had the bad luck to have picked 8 out of 10 of some of the worst places?

Specializes in Medical Detox , IV Sed., Oral Surgery.
HHMMM . . .

"Save MD's butts constantly and do lots of dirty work"

Sounds a lot like nursing

What do they want, a medal?

:lol2:

Hi,

I've only done MED/SURG. in nursing school. I do clinical nursing. I just think burn out is high with some RN's. If I have more self confidence in myself when i was younger I would have gone for RN instead of MA and LVN. However, I wouldn't have gotten the great job I have now if I was an RN because they don't have to pay me as much.

Thanks for reading this.

I have met a lot of sweet PAs too, as well as doctors. I have also met quite a few doctors and some PAs who are jerks, treating nurses like handmaidens and airheads, like we know nothing and are there to bow to their every wishes. I am not saying the OP did not meet nurses who treated him badly. I do, however, think that if he met THAT many nurses who treated him badly, then he probably bears some of the responsibility for it. And while I can see nurses making a jerky intern/resident/PA/doctor's life miserable because of how he/she treats them, I can't see those nurses (at least, not as many as he claims) endangering pt's lives by doing things like delaying morphine and nitro for cardiac pts.

Why is a PA (as in physician's ASSISTANT?) venting on a nurses' website? That's like me going over to a PA website and telling them all what a bunch of losers they are...wouldn't go over very well. Maybe I missed something, but just asking...

Yes, I agree. Why indeed?

well, if we're going to be like that, then why are medics, techs, lay people etc allowed to post here without being lynched? i've even seen posts from a vet's assistant! you can't just pick out one group and say they aren't allowed to post in your neighbourhood, it's like having a christian site and saying 'everyone welcome - except jews'. the site's not made for them, but they're still allowed to come look around!

i may not agree with what he is saying, but i will defend to the death his right to say it.

i think we all need to step back and get some perspective. this thread's getting a bit heated, and it's over silly things.

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bless

Specializes in Public Health, DEI.
well, if we're going to be like that, then why are medics, techs, lay people etc allowed to post here without being lynched? i've even seen posts from a vet's assistant! you can't just pick out one group and say they aren't allowed to post in your neighbourhood, it's like having a christian site and saying 'everyone welcome - except jews'. the site's not made for them, but they're still allowed to come look around!

i may not agree with what he is saying, but i will defend to the death his right to say it.

i think we all need to step back and get some perspective. this thread's getting a bit heated, and it's over silly things.

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bless

It is illogical to come to a nursing board, trash nursing and then wonder why on earth some of the nurses who visit here seem to be offended. If venting is what was intended, it would have made far more sense for the OP to go vent on a site of his peers. If, on the other hand, as he said, he actually wanted to solicit the perspective of nurses, then that's what he has accomplished. That some of those perspectives haven't been particularly friendly really ought not to surprise him, given the tone of his post. I wonder why you'll defend ''to the death'' (a bit dramatic, IMHO) his right to say what he wants and then chastise other posters for doing the exact same thing.

I am sorry I was not able to reply for a couple of days. I had been working and didn't have a minute. Let me try to encompass everything said and asked from all of you. I am from NY and we do tend to "tell it like it is without sugar coating it". Just our style. To make myself very clear, I have so much respect for nurses, the ones I work with, many, and I mean many I have worked with in the past, and my wife, she is one of the best. What I was asking, and listen carefully as quite a number of you have missed this part, is how has the management of at least 6 or 7 of those hospital, as well as their co-workers allowed that kind of atmosphere to go on? They knew, they didn't just turn their backs, the condoned it. One hospital I worked in, an 80 y/o with a broken hip asked me for a bed pan. Not my patient, just happened to be put in the room. It was policy that a male did not undress a female and put a bed pan under them by themselves. I went to the desk of the main ED and asked the nurse if she coulld put a bed pan under the patient. She turned to me and said "Why do you go tell her to go piss on herself". I had to pick my jaw up from the floor. I had no idea how to respond. Not a problem because she turned and walked away and sat at the desk. I went back to the fast track and called the nursing administrator of the hospital. I told her exactly what the nurse had said to me, and her response was "well why can't you do it?". I asked her if she found it aceptable that her nurse spoke to me that way, she said, well, there is no reason you can't do it". It wans't even my patient, and she had no problem with the way her nurse spoke to me, and about the patient.

So you wonder why I don't write nurses up? Partially because of that, partially because at the ED where they ripped up my scripts, a few nurses went to the director and made a complaint that my supervising physician told me not to give narcotics to a patient and I waited for his shift to end, told the patient "just wait until he is out of here and I will get you narcotics" and then asked the next doctor to come on for an ok for narcotics. First, I can order any narcotics I want, and I can't imagine what I would get out of telling that to a patient. The director and I had been close friends and he said "it's time for you to find another place. It's not you, it's them, and the next thing you are going to find is some viles of morphine in your locker". I was out of there in a heartbeat. As far as the docs backing me in the horrible ED in Virginia, about 90% of them (there were about 2 out of the 50 docs in my group to back me) said, I am sorry, I can't get on the nurses bad side. I have to work here and it is bad enough what they do to you, I can't work as a physician where the nurses are treating my like that".

What does my wife think? She worked in Virginia with me. She knows the hell I went through there. She started out in the midwest and on her first job in oncology, a nurse asked her to give a medication. She was on the job for only 6 months. There ended up being a question on the physician actually giving the orders. The nurses in the unit denied ever telling my wife to give the medicastion. She was asked to leave. She happened to be blond, young, and cute, and that can sometimes be the kiss of death to a new grad (at least I have been told this by a few in the medical field). I wouldn't know, I don't think I am cute so I never had that problem.

I am surprised that many of you have had similar situations. I am surprised that many of you have found some, and the emphesis is on SOME nurses as horrible as I have. I guess I had thought maybe it was just me.

For those that have missed the post where I told you my perception of how I treat nurses, I have never had a formal complaint from a nurse in 10 years, and only one from a patient for not giving him a cast for his "sprain". If I thought myself better than the staff, then I would obviously have the same response at my current hospital. I hear at least once a shift when someone comes into the room "Oh, your working tonight, thank god, here's to a good night". Their words, not mine.

I just want to thank you all for listening to me. No, I am not sitting here having a good laugh at your expenses as some of you think. Just wanted to vent, and get some feedback. Can't get that from the horses mouth on the PA forum....

I wonder why you'll defend ''to the death'' (a bit dramatic, IMHO)

it's a famous quote from Voltaire. sorry, assumed everyone would know that.

As far as the docs backing me in the horrible ED in Virginia, about 90% of them (there were about 2 out of the 50 docs in my group to back me) said, I am sorry, I can't get on the nurses bad side. I have to work here and it is bad enough what they do to you, I can't work as a physician where the nurses are treating my like that".

I once worked in a toxic and unsafe environment and my efforts to educate, document and report to the administration fell flat. I left after 2 months and reported the facility to the State. I quess what I'm trying to say is that if you see an unsafe situation, you are obligated to report it, even to write up your co-workers. I don't agree that one should "get along" with certain people because they "have" to work with them.

Abbies,

PS nurses rock

What does my wife think? She worked in Virginia with me. She knows the hell I went through there. She started out in the midwest and on her first job in oncology, a nurse asked her to give a medication. She was on the job for only 6 months. There ended up being a question on the physician actually giving the orders. The nurses in the unit denied ever telling my wife to give the medicastion. She was asked to leave. She happened to be blond, young, and cute, and that can sometimes be the kiss of death to a new grad (at least I have been told this by a few in the medical field). I wouldn't know, I don't think I am cute so I never had that problem.

Are there any more stereotypes you'd like to bring to the discussion???

I haven't responded to you until now, but the "blond, young, and cute" comment just frosted my toenails. Your wife's problem isn't that she's too beautiful for the rest of us, it's that she was too stupid not to give a medication without checking the order. No nurse just gives a medication on the say-so of another nurse; they verify the order or at least the MAR. But dang, it must be cuz she's just so purty...us uglies is jus' jealous.

Specializes in Burn ICU, Psych, PACU.
well, if we're going to be like that, then why are medics, techs, lay people etc allowed to post here without being lynched? i've even seen posts from a vet's assistant! you can't just pick out one group and say they aren't allowed to post in your neighbourhood, it's like having a christian site and saying 'everyone welcome - except jews'. the site's not made for them, but they're still allowed to come look around!

i may not agree with what he is saying, but i will defend to the death his right to say it.

i think we all need to step back and get some perspective. this thread's getting a bit heated, and it's over silly things.

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bless

Oh, please...lighten up! There's no way you can compare someone asking why a PA is on a ALLnurses.com website to discrimination based on religion or race. Talk about stepping back and getting "some perspective". I am a registered nurse, I come to ALLnurses.com to hear from other nurses...period. Maybe it should be posted somewhere that this site is NOT ALL nurses, but anyone who wants to stick their thumb in the pudding...sheesh...is there a site out there where these little "holier-than-thou" non-nurses don't appear?

P.S. Voltaire yes, but still a little dramatic...I prefer Tacticus

P.S.S. "Lynched" is rather a strong word to use regarding people just practicing their right to free speech...as you have done

Specializes in emergency and psych.

I've been reading this this thread and the replies for 2 days now and all I can say is the majority of the replies serves to indicate the OP'S negative experiences are true. Oh....exuse me... let me qualify that. In my opinion ,

the majority of the replies.......... Some of you sound like the nurses he's

describing. Whether you believe this or not, I've worked with people in our profession who are quite capable of,and have, behaved as he has described.

Ya'll (and you know who you are) are mean.

To the moderators of this forum: Thank you for allowing such colorful debate

Specializes in Public Health, DEI.
it's a famous quote from Voltaire. sorry assumed everyone would know that.[/quote']

Yes. I know the quote. That's why I used quotation marks. I still think it was overdramatic and out of place in this particular discussion.

As a moderator, I really dislike closing threads--respectful dissent can be thought provoking and energizing--but the atmosphere in this arena has degenerated beyond help.

For the record, Allnurses.com is open to anyone who chooses to come here so long as they behave themselves according to the Terms of Service. I hope it will always remain so. We can benefit from the perspective of those who receive our care, those considering going into nursing, and those who work with us in other capacities, so long as we don't fall into an adversarial mindset.

Before someone accuses the OP of being adversarial, I can see where his initial post may have been taken that way, but he conducted himself graciously in subsequent posts, even when being challenged in a none-too-gentle manner. He supplied information that, while horrifying, is not without predecent. He kept his tone civil. And he stated a number of times that he has found a workplace that is blessedly free of the bullying and conflict he previously had to deal with. He also expressed his profound respect for the nurses he currently works with. This is not generally the behavior of a troll.

While we're on the subject, publicly accusing someone of being a troll is not something that should be done lightly, if at all. If you really believe a poster is yanking everyone's chain, please report the post and ignore the suspected offender. The moderators take such behavior seriously and we don't hesitate to assess points or ban someone outright if we see sufficient evidence to do so. Feel free to call our attention to your suspicions (via PM or the report feature), but please leave any confrontations to staff.

I had hoped that yesterday's post asking people to "play nice" would restore a civil tone to the conversation. That didn't happen so this thread is now closed.

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