Is this the publics perception of nurses?

[austin heart]

i am a charge RN in a cvicu. yesterday i took care of a man that was pod1 5 vessel cabg on a balloon pump and multiple drips. i had post op'd the pt the previous day so i had developed a repor with he and his family. he was telling me that his daughter is a physical therapist and works in a DR's office yadda yadda, yadda. he then asks me if i make good money beings that i have no college degree. i informed him that i did have a college degree and was very well educated in my field. he stated that he was unaware that you needed to go to college to be a nurse.

i was shocked! this was a very sick man and needed detailed care! is this the perception of the public that anyone can walk in off the street and get a job as a nurse? do they think it is like checking groceries or something? and this was a very well educated man himself. i am still just shocked and offended! has anyone else had this happen?

thanks for letting me vent

[Pretzlgl]

Originally posted by hapeewendy

as a nurse who went the college route I found that I learned a lot more than my university counterparts at the time did , infact during my pregrad at a major downtown hospital here in toronto I was one of 2 pregrad students on the unit - the other was a university pregrad, keep in mind we were both pregrad and both able to write our exams at the same time (which we did infact because I saw her at the exam!) anyway , I was treated like part of the staff, had a lot more learning opportunities given to me, kind of dove right into things, the other pregrad student seemed to lack the confidence that comes from being thrust into the clinical setting early (like we were in college) and that cost her plenty of opportunities including a job offer at the same facility...

anyway its not a debate between one or the other, I am a proponent of the same level of entry to the profession , and I do believe it should be a degree......

I never believed this until this september when I started my BSCN at university .. I think it would do wonders for our profession to have everyone come from the same type of prgoram with the same knowledge base and to be recognized the same way worldwide for our education and experience...

Ok, but you said that when you were on the unit you were given more learning opportunities and dove right into things with confidence. (Which the university student lacked). So then how would that degree be better in and of itself for our profession?

I think that continuing education is great, necessary. But I just can't see the "wonders" that this would create for us. I am not arguing against a degree - just can't accept the fact that it is any better than a diploma or an ADN. (My coworker who has a degree did not know that regular insulin could be given IV - and she calls the crash cart the "red thingy". "You know that red thingy needs to be checked by pharmacy." Anyway, it is not always just the piece of paper behind the person, it is the person themselves).

[austin heart, BSN, RN]

Originally posted by MishlB

NEWSFLASH....most patients and their families don't know the difference between CNA, LPN, RN, and NP. They only want a knowlegable, caring, and respectful person to care for their loved one in their time of need.

[/b]

i don't know about that. i get asked almost everyday by at least on of my patients "are you an RN?"

i also work in a hospital that only hires RN's. this is printed in pt education material so that all patients know that they are being cared for by an RN. but who reads that stuff?

please, LVN's do not flame me. i, being and RN do not think that i am superior, just stating facts in my facility.

[SmilingBluEyes]

Suzy---your argument, while well-articulated, does not hold water for me. Why? Well, you forget the demographic FACTS......many, many of us who entered nursing ALREADY had careers and were RAISING FAMILIES...so, yes, if you want to standardize your education, you better make it available universally. You can't have it BOTH ways...to sate the shortage, it would HAVE to be that way or else you will see MANY fewer RN's available in tomorrow's work force to take care of you, me or your "future children"....That is the way it is.

NOADN (A proponent organization for Associate-Degree-Prepared nurses) put out a statistic that supports what I am saying. The AVERAGE age of the RN student USA-WIDE, IS IN FACT, 34 years of age. (I know-- considerably older than you were when you graduated school). So, you can imagine that AVERAGE student HAS OTHER COMMITMENTS besides taking MUSIC APPRECIATION and ART when wishing to become an RN. , let alone driving 100s of miles as a NON-traditional student! She/he likely has to put food on the table for him/herself and perhaps, a family, as well as attend school.......THAT is the reality. THAT is WHERE I CAME FROM, so yes, I believe if you are gonna make it BSN-only, you better damn well make it accessible or suffer an ever-deeper shortage. It's a fact those of us with families CANNOT just pull up stakes and drive 100s of miles in pursuit of an RN education.

Ya just can't have it all your way. And it would *not* be" lowering the bar" to do so....it would ACTUALLY be raising it, if you look at from YOUR standpoint. You would then, finally, attain your goal of a NON-fragmented education that is standardized and recognized by all, right?

[Pretzlgl]

Deb - I was in the same boat as you. Did not have the opportunity to attend a 4 year school right away, so I worked full time to save enough money to go to my wonderful diploma program. And then I worked 2 part time jobs. You are right Suzy - other career paths do not guarantee this. But count the number of MBA's needed versus the number of RN's needed. Deb is right, you can't have it both ways. Because the ramifications of limiting the availability of nursing programs would be mind boggling. WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH NURSES NOW! Everyone cannot move or commute that far to go to nursing school - if you had that opportunity, then good for you. Just remember that all of us didn't.

[MissdonditaBsn]

I too have a real problem with those people who either present themselves as nurses or do not deny it when they are called nurses. It seems to me that females who are seen working in phycicians offices and those that do some patient care are lumped into that catch all phrase 'nurse" and none of them deny it.

I too once confronted a person who claimed to be a nurse. I was caring for her brother who had newly diagnosed hepatits. She came into the hospital wearing scrubs and demanding answers about her brothers care. She even through a fit because we ordered a portable chest xray after his central line placement. She was going around telling everyone she was a nurse. I polietly asked where she worked and she told me which medical clinic she worked at. I just happened to know that that clinic did not hire any nurses because I tried to get a job there. I told her I was suprised that they had hired a nurse. She still persisted. Well then she asked me what hepatits was. I told her "I thought you were a nurse. I am suprised you don't know what hepatitis is". It was only then that she admitted that she was a MOA.

This past summer I was on a camping trip with a bunch of friends. There were some people there who I was not familiar with. I was introduced to them and then told we were lucky becuse this year there were 3 nurses on our camping/kayaking trip rather than just me. Well as the weekend went on I started to ask these "nurses" where they work. One stated that she worked in a OB-GYN's office. I then asked if she had ever worked in a hospital to which she informed me that she was a medical biller. I just thought, whatever, and just let that go. Then I was talking to her friend who stated that she worked in a pharmacy. I said "oh, so your not a nurse, are you a Pharmacist". She states " Yeah, I am. I never said I was a nurse". I said "you never denied it". Well it turns out that this girl was just crazy, because later she was talking about becoming an Engineer. I said "I thought you were a Pharmacist, why are you switching?" to which she tells me " No, I'm a Pharmacy Tech". WHAT??????

I get so tired of that. I worked hard to earn my ADN and then my BSN. Who are these people to take credit for something they didn't do. Everyone asked why I was so upset, I finally asked them "Would you consider mall Security a Police Officer just because they drive a car with lights on top and wear a similar uniform?" I feel that this is a similar thing and we nurses shouldn't have to feel ashamed to stand up and fight for our right to be recognized. It doesn't matter what degree we have earned, Diploma/ADN/BSN, we have all taken the same exam and we all worked hard for the HONOR of being called a nurse!!!

[MissdonditaBsn]

BTW, I don't mean to imply that nurses are ashamed to stand up for themselves. I just mean that, in my experience, when I want to stand up and say "I am a nurse and this is what it means", people act like I should just quit being like that, I know that I am the nurse and that should be enough, but it's not. I should be made to be ashamed to stand up for my profession, one I might add, I don't believe gets enough respect.

[SmilingBluEyes]

(((loud claps and baudy cheers for MissdonitaBsn)),

I could NOT have said it better myself. You really cut to the heart of it. A BSN who realizes all us of have value despite our varied educations. And that ADN's and Diploma grads are NOT lowering the BAR! That the general public is often HOODWINKED by NON nurses who refuse to be truthful in their roles. That the issue is not JUST educational level! I thank you! THIS is what I have been trying to say, but you said it MUCH better!

[Pretzlgl]

Yes, I would also like to join SmilingBlueEyes and say thank you! You did say it all - very well. You are one of the few BSN nurses who has actually said something positive with regards to ADN/Diploma nurses. It is nice to read a post that makes its point without being condescending.

(By the way - I am not saying that BSN nurses are all negative towards diploma/ADN - just that in this thread there haven't been many positive remarks.)

[SmilingBluEyes]

Suzy, all you need to is access http://www.noadn.org to see the impact of simply doing away w/associate degree RN programs in the USA would be.......the VAST majority of incoming RN's graduates these programs; you can see how the FACTS back up what I am saying about making BSN programs universally-available if you wish to have enough RN's to care for us all into old age today and in the future.

[Q.]

Ok, so in answer to my philosophical question - "should a college education (nursing) be accessible (meaning, close to everyone's community, and a set pricetag) to all?" you're answering "yes." It should be, and better be, or else, forget it. Right?

There are other shortages of professions out there as well. Computer science, to name one. To argue that "computer science" isn't as "important" as nursing is moot and not even relevant and could be argued. Does that mean that whenever there is an identified shortage of something - we open the floodgates and ensure that everyone who has a whim can attain it?

Not everyone can commute or move that far to go to ANY school or ANY career they want - why should nursing be any different than any other career path? Or are you saying that this should only be in effect when there is a "shortage?"

Deb, your stats of the average age of an RN seem a bit low. I've read the average age is 42, and I don't think that has anything to do with BSN or ADN. I think it has MORE to do with the fact that high schoolers are not choosing nursing, or, if they make it that far, leave the profession in droves.

This can be a cyclical argument. There's arguments that state having one entry (BSN) would worsen the shortage for a bit, but we'd recover in the long run; others say it would worsen and NEVER recover, because people who want to be nurses don't necessarily want a Bachelors, or, that a Bachelor's isn't important to being a nurse. Let me ask, when IS a Bachelor's important or valuable? In what profession or career? And if it is in those specific careers, why them and not nursing?

And finally, I'm a BSN proponent and there is nothing wrong with that. However, I'm MORE SO a proponent for ONE point of entry into professional practice - if that's an ADN so be it. But my main concern is standard educational requirements. None of this mish-mash garbage we got going on now.

[Pretzlgl]

Originally posted by Susy K

Deb, your stats of the average age of an RN seem a bit low. I've read the average age is 42, and I don't think that has anything to do with BSN or ADN.

This can be a cyclical argument. There's arguments that state having one entry (BSN) would worsen the shortage for a bit, but we'd recover in the long run; others say it would worsen and NEVER recover, because people who want to be nurses don't necessarily want a Bachelors, or, that a Bachelor's isn't important to being a nurse. Let me ask, when IS a Bachelor's important or valuable? In what profession or career? And if it is in those specific careers, why them and not nursing?

But my main concern is standard educational requirements. None of this mish-mash garbage we got going on now.

Suzy -

SmilingBlueEyes meant the average age for a nursing STUDENT is 34, not the practicing nurse. And this does have something to do with BSN/ADN. At 34 most people have many other responsibilities that may preclude them from attending the traditional 4 year degree program. The fact that there are ADN and diploma nursing programs available was a blessing for me. I was able to enter a profession that I otherwise couldn't. (Time and financial constraints being my reasons).

However, I do see your point. And I agree. (choke - LOL) The fact that there is a shortage should really not dictate the availability of programs. Most likely, more programs pop up and contribute to the poor reputation of nursing. (Lower standards, etc.) I still contend that nursing has many other issues as well - maybe standard educational requirements would be one step in the right direction, but many more steps would have to follow.

[MishlB]

Originally posted by MissdonditaBsn

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It doesn't matter what degree we have earned, Diploma/ADN/BSN, we have all taken the same exam and we all worked hard for the HONOR of being called a nurse!!!

HOORAY FOR THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!