Is this the publics perception of nurses? - page 13
i am a charge RN in a cvicu. yesterday i took care of a man that was pod1 5 vessel cabg on a balloon pump and multiple drips. i had post op'd the pt the previous day so i had developed a repor with... Read More
Dec 29, '02Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 38,756; Likes: 16,286I am sure I would enjoy that discussion, immensely Suzy. At that juncture, you are I agree. Education can be obtained in so many ways. Too bad all that John Q. seems to respect is traditional, formalized education. The WORLD is the GREATEST classroom..and we are our own best teachers! That's life in the big city I guess.Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Dec 29, '02
Dec 29, '02Occupation: Patient Education Specialty: 7 year(s) of experience in LDRP; Education ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 7,470; Likes: 56Originally posted by SmilingBluEyes
Education can be obtained in so many ways. Too bad all that John Q. seems to respect is traditional, formalized education.
Dec 29, '02Joined: May '02; Posts: 266; Likes: 1Originally posted by Susy K
Whatever darling. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Guess you took the carrot too....see I wasn't the only one - this is my main point Susy; we need to unify - not tear each other down. It is soooo easy to do so. Can't we find some common solutions to our problems - instead of just disagreeing all of the time?
Dec 29, '02Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 38,756; Likes: 16,286Cause suzy, I don't subscribe to thinking like the masses, (just for its own sake), I guess. That and to me, it always comes to $$$ ...and the $$$ I don't have because I am raising kids and that in itself costs enough. I guess that is part of it. That and I KNOW ADN's make DARN GOOD NURSES and should not be discounted or looked-down upon, ever,by you, by me or "John Q".Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Dec 29, '02
Dec 29, '02Occupation: Patient Education Specialty: 7 year(s) of experience in LDRP; Education ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 7,470; Likes: 56Deb-
Ok, I see your thinking and I applaud the anti-group-think ya got going on. But doesn't there come a point in time when we actually start conforming to nonconformity? By that I mean, if we agree or identify that John Q respects formalized education, but refuse to give in to it to prove a point, doesn't that in effect do more harm than good?
I mean, if we could attain those things without the BSN (and I'm only using BSN for the sake of the argument; I'm more so a proponent for ONE level of entry - whatever that may be) that would be ideal - but we haven't so far - so....?
Dec 29, '02Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 38,756; Likes: 16,286----so I guess we come to a reasonable compromise. As others have said, EDUCATE THE PUBLIC as to what we do, who we are, how we are prepared. This may take some serious work on our part...some volunteering in the schools, teaching the children and those about to enter college about who we are, what we do and the educational preparation we have, first. After all, THEY are the future, in nursing, as anywhere else.
BEING VISIBLE is critical---and caring VERY much our image on and off the job. We ARE professionals and should present ourselves as such if we will garner ANY respect from anyone. I guess that is a start. It would not do to have a master's degree if one cannot appear professional and competent to those outside nursing. I have seen MANY poor examples of this in management and higher-ups all the time. It damages us all when just a few compromise our image in negative ways.
That and the one-point entry is perhaps a viable option....but it must be phased carefully. I don't think all of us having BSN's would be a bad thing...but I don't see it is possible w/o a LOT of revamping and serious work w/o putting the already-bad shortage in an even worse way. Why NOT let ADN be entry for now, if confusion is a great concern? Anyone is free to pursue his/her advanced education as their time/money allow. Anyhow, To me, education is important, but its lack is only a fractional portion of nursing's woes. Our IMAGE is damaged all the time, in magazines, TV, movies, and by our OWN in many ways. There are a lot of things to tackle to improve our plight as nurses now and in the future and how "John Q" sees us.
I suppose, It IS about education, like you say, Suzy. But educating the PUBLIC, to me, not just the nursing ranks.
Dec 29, '02Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 38,756; Likes: 16,286another thing: NEVER ALLOWING NON-NURSES TO ABUSE OUR TITLE, PRIVELEGES AND RESPONSIBILITIES by calling themselves such when they are NOT---would also help a LOT. Like the "nurse judy" situation, I would find it intolerable and WOULD speak up and tell her to stop allowing others to call her a nurse. It IS unethical and damaging. That is a big problem, also.
Dec 29, '02Joined: Jun '00; Posts: 1,017; Likes: 32Forgive me but I personally don't give a flying F**k what John Q. Public regards as a "worthy" education. If you come home and the pipes have burst are you going to call a plumber? I don't know a plumber who is college educated, but that plumber sure as hell knows more about fixing broken pipes than I do, and as long as he can fix the pipes that's all I care about. And frankly when a patient comes into the hospital all the care about is whether the nurse they have can give the care that THEY need. I would dare say that every single one of us have experienced the patient that does not give a rip about whether you have other patients who need your attention worse than them, but they don't care, they want their needs meant now. Don't flatter yourself and think that they really care what degree you have. When I call that plumber I know that in the state of Michigan a plumber has to take a journeyman's course for 2 years and then sit for a test to be licensed, all I have to do is check what their license number is when I call. When John Q Public shows up in the hospital they rely on the hospital to have done that checking for them. Why should I let the John Q. Public dicate to the nursing profession what degree we should hold? People who put more value on formal education instead of true knowledge have some status problems I'm afraid.
Donita I bow and give applause. I keep telling my friend Julie that I'm going to join the Michigan Nurse Association, even have the check in an envelope to do it, but I just can't make myself be part of something that can't seem to get off their azzes and do something productive. Julie tells me all the time the ANA is only as good as it's members, yet that little voice inside me says Nah, they have clout if they wish to use it. They have money if they wish to use it and if they do than I'll join. I would join a nurse organization in a minute that didn't put union issues out there for nurses to argue about, that didn't give the implied impression that only university prepared nurses are useful, that gave real respect to the bedside nurse and have the cajones to really speak to what the problems are. I'd join in a minute and pay good money for it too. The problem is that most nurses really don't have many cajones when the chips are down. At least that is my experience.
Dec 29, '02Occupation: Hospice clinical director Joined: May '02; Posts: 2,873; Likes: 26I do agree that there should be one level of entry, but I desperately wish that for those who are already licensced, there could be respect, whether diploma/ADN/BSN.
No one knows another person's circumstances, so it is too simplistic to say that everyone could get a BSN if they had sufficient motivation.
I graduated 17y ago from a tough diploma program; I remember how proud I was to have been accepted, and later to have graduated from this school. Over the years of taking courses off and on, I've gotten ~75 credits toward my BSN. What stops me from finishing? Life circumstances for one, and having BSN's look down their noses at my diploma education. Yes, those electives can really round you out, and broaden your perspective. But if having a hgher level of education makes you less appreciative of your peers who are not BSN's then I'm not sure I want to finish. It is hurtful to read others who seem to imply that those of us without BSN's really shouldn't be in the profession. Perhaps that's more a reflection of someone's personal beliefs than part of the BSN education...it just seems that I hear that same thing more or less from most BSN's.
So, here I am, a lowly diploma grad, with a half-finished BSN. Somehow, that didn't get in the way of my having the skills to get certified in 4 different specialties over the years.
Personally, I think an ADN would be an acceptable level of entry; if someone wants to go further, he/she will have credits to transfer. While I don't think that nsg. education should be a cakewalk, I would hate to see people who would otherwise be excellent nurses be excluded because they could not complete a BSN due to cost/availability. Remember, the only person's circumstances you can really know are your own.
Sorry...just needed to get that off my chest!
Dec 29, '02Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 38,756; Likes: 16,286***applauds fab4fan. YOU GET IT, don't you?
Dec 30, '02Occupation: CNA Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 485; Likes: 15You know, today another CNA was telling me how her daughter is in nursing school and how she is trying to discourage her from working with pts. She wants her to teach instead(but how can you teach if you have never worked with pts?) When I asked her why she said, " Nurses are all servants and they all hate their jobs...it's a horrible profession," IF she feels that way about nurses, why on EARTH is she a CNA? Interesting...
Dec 30, '02Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 25I notice that patients are beginning to ask me what my credentials are. I am one of those diploma RN's and I also have Med -surg certification. My badge at work says RN,C. Alot of times they ask me if I am liscenced. I remember the first time a patient asked me that it made me wonder if that patient was going to go for my licsence cause he was kind of an ornary guy, never seemed pleased with anything. Since he asked , many more have. I think the RN,C. gets them curious. Now they even ask if I would get more pay if I had a degree. Also more patients seem to think that if you have the RN you don't do baths, incontinent care or bed pans. Just yesterday, I worked with 3 RNs we had no aide or LPN on (WOW) cause they all were called out sick. One patient was just totally shocked that I did "all those things"! The docs where I work are pretty aware that there is a difference between RN and LPN at least to the extent that if they call in telephone orders they ask if this is an RN who can take orders. I don't know how much more they know about our education. And recently I have been working with A really neat nurse who just happens to be a man. And this sex role thing does have some validity-cause 2 different times, once a patient and once a doctor, gave me crap and did not give him crap and it was my coworker who said It's a guy thing, it should not be but it is.
Dec 30, '02Occupation: Patient Education Specialty: 7 year(s) of experience in LDRP; Education ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 7,470; Likes: 56Originally posted by SmilingBluEyes
another thing: NEVER ALLOWING NON-NURSES TO ABUSE OUR TITLE, PRIVELEGES AND RESPONSIBILITIES by calling themselves such when they are NOT---would also help a LOT.