I think nurses share some of the blame for the nursing shortage.

Nurses General Nursing

Published

I read recently that only 12% of all nurses are under the age of 30. Being a new graduate BSN and practicing nursing for 18 months, I found that statistic pretty horrifying. I have been visiting this site for about three months now and various nurses are trying to find out solutions to the nursing shortage and who to blame.

First off I think nurses need to share some of that blame. Like I said am a new nurse that graduated with my BSN and also with a Business degree. So I am keen to pick up on why things do not work. First off our normal nursing class size usually max out at thirty-five students. Our class started out with 27 students because the program did not receive enough applications to fill the class. During my last two years we lost 5 students out of the program not because of low grade or they failed out, most were top of our class, mostly because of lack of respect they received from nursing instructors and nursing staff at the local hospitals where we did our clinical.

LPN's and Rn's alike would ridicule most of the students. They would openly complain about us to the patients and to staff members alike. During report we would hear the RN's say "al my gosh we have students today, today would be a good day to call in sick". Don't get me wrong there was some educators that did a good gob and greeted us with open arms, but a majority of the time the staff was very disrespectful from RN's to Nursing Assistant's. Most of the teaching came from physicians if we had the opportunity to rounds with.

After graduation I passed my boards on the first try and took a job on a Medical Surgical floor. The first night was highly anticipated and was looking forward to my new career. I reported to the charge nurse who did not expect me and did not know who to put me with. Eventually they put me with a LVN who was very intolerable to teaching others and I seemed like a burden to her. Eventually I just left and told the charge nurse I was very disappointed by the way things was run here and left in middle of my shift.

Eventually I did land a job that did really well in teaching me the ins and outs of nursing. I would actually check on my fellow graduates after a year of last seeing them. One of my fellow students informed me that four other nurses got out of nursing they did not feel safe with the patient load given to them and very little mentoring from senior nurses.

I am 26 years of age, kind of old for a new graduate. I worked in other professions such and engineering as a drafter and sales. Never have I worked in a profession that fellow professionals were so rude and uncaring to each other. I have several friends who are physicians that talked me to going back to school and finish my classes to apply to Medical School, they openly joke about how nurses are very disrespectfully to each other and how senior nurses eat their young.

If the nursing profession were such a great career as most of you described, there would not be a shortage. I agree that that the aging baby boomer poses a challenge and is one of the reasons but I think we need to look in the mirror and accept some of the blame.

So in closing if you get a new graduated in the floor, accept them with open arms instead of treating them like a burden.

All of the baby boomers are getting older, and starting to retire, not just nurses- Then why isn't there a shortage in every field that is made up of mostly boomers?

The reason is simple. An older population demands health care six times more than a younger population. As you get older, you need a lot more health care services and, consequently, nurses.

You may need only one accountant (just as an example) in your lifetime. And, during most of your lifetime, you may not even need a nurse. But once you hit 65 (the largest growing segment of the population thanks to the baby boom generation) you're probably going to need a nurse ... and you may need a lot of nurses a lot of the time.

The demand side of the baby boom equation is also driving the nursing shortage, and will continue to do so. Aging baby boomers are going to need nurses a lot more than they'll need accountants.

Again, I don't really disagree with what you are saying. Just that there are many factors involved, not just lousy working conditions.

:coollook:

My goodness. Another embryo nurse who thinks they know it all....Not meant to be mean spirited and you raise some interesting points BUT some of us love working in hospitals....Hospitals like to make money and don't want to spend that money on mere nurses...Nursing, in an attempt to raise the "respect" insisted on trying to upgrade nursing by making degrees if not mandatory at least THE thing to do. I have no problem with that, but when you take people like yourself who haven't really been in the trenches of what some of us call true nursing, then you get people who aren't willing ( and rightfully so) to settle for the ways nurses are generally treated. I think that requirement may have largely backfired on nursing in some respects.

Nurses are not to blame for the conditions they find themselves in. Those of us who are still in it are in it because we love being nurses. Big business doesn't want to adequately compensate skilled nurses and feels they can save money by making conditions nurses work under ( and patients potentially suffer under), bare bones at best...Yet, in an ever increasing ironic twist, they create the problems they have....Of course there are other issues, but the irony is, healthcare could not adequately function without nurses...You can be forgiven for your idealism as you only recently got started and really have no idea beyond student nursing , what nursing is really like in the trenches vs the office environment, which these days is no piece of cake either.

I guess those of us who love nursing and have to continue to take the adverse conditions for the sake of our families and bring in the income are to blame minimally because we continue to show up to work and do the best we can under appalling conditions, which are always fine with management and the upper echelon UNTIL their families come in to be treated. THEN it is an entirely different story....THEN they become concerned and horrified....I treat everyone equally and am not impressed if a so called VIP ends up on my unit..He or she gets treatment to the best of my ability and skill who EVER he or she is related to..And, the families don't necessarily like that I may have seven or more other patients. I don't lose sleep over that......Welcome to nursing.....Enjoy!

lizz,

As a person gets older and needs more health care, they will also need more doctors, more specialists. They will need more labs drawn, need more phlebotomists, lab techs, pharmacists, X-ray techs, physical therapists, medical billing people, and on and on.

Explain why there are no "shortages" in these fields?

Specializes in Interventional Pain Mgmt NP; Prior ICU and L/D RN.

[ Like I said am a new nurse that graduated with my BSN and also with a Business degree. So I am keen to pick up on why things do not work. ]

Excuse my rudeness, (and not that I want to get flamed) but you said it yourself...YOU are still fairly a new nurse and whether or not you have a Business degree or not will not give you greater insight into the problems that all of us nurses are experiencing. Nurses leave the profession for so many varied reasons...and then some that are related...Do YOU really think it helps "us" experienced nurses to know that YOU new grads are almost making the same as We are? :angryfire And only after a couple of years on your behalf and those same years added onto ours that YOU WILL be making more than US? Unsafe working conditions in relation to pt load, managers that sit on their A$$ instead of helping their staff fix the unit problems, normally..absolutely no appreciation from your facility or "boss" for your hard work, pulling extra shifts, more and more responsibilities being put on the nurse because of cost containment (ie: cutting back on ancillary staff). Now I won't disagree that there are some backstabbing nurses (there ARE), but those type of people are everywhere..it isn't centralized to nursing. AND I have seen plenty of BACKSTABBING PHYSICIANS! They can be really awful. The "bad" instructors in school that I had in the end taught me valuable lessons! It is all in the attitude of how you deal with it. Why do I stay where I am??? Because if I left that would be admitting defeat and allowing them to win. I want to make a difference and try to help work out the things that are wrong. I love what I DO also! Educate yourself with your hospital policy and use them to your advantage. The upper crust tend to forget that we CAN READ! Throw a hospital written policy in their face and they will shut up real quick :chair: Know your BON by-laws..they will help you also. Don't be afraid to speak up for what is right.

Nurses that eat their young...well..yes some do, but on the other hand a preceptor sometimes has to be tough in order to ensure that the new nurse will be competent on their own...I want to make sure that the person will be able to intervene in a patient situation and/or know their resources..you won't always have someone there to bail you out.

I apologize for my rudeness..I do get somewhat offensive when newbies try to come in and tell us OLDIES what our problem is. Experience here does have the upper hand only in that we have been dealing with it much longer. And that is not to say a fresh perspective doesn't help, just be constructive with it!

Your concern for the nurse shortage is admirable, but I think you have fairly unrealistic expectations. You are fed up with the tension between nurses so you go into Medicine!? Maybe when you're a "fairly new doctor" you'll feel the same way.

Also, maybe a little research into your former employer would have given you a little insight on their attitudes towards teaching. Perhaps talking to someone who worked there would have also been beneficial. I would never accept a job without researching the atmosphere of the facility if I was at all uncomfortable with possibly recieving attitude or disrespect from other nurses.

In short, I hope you don't expect to get nothing but encouragement and support from fellow doctors.

Good luck.

Doctors and especially specialists, make good money. Yes , they have overhead, but techs and nurses in offices usually make less than those who work in hospitals...Phebotomists, techs, etc, may have wildly busy times BUT they don't have multiple tasks and responsibilities as do most nurses covering specific patients. They don't have to answer as much to doctors or management in the way nurses do...This phenomenon is vastly different than nursing ...All areas described have stressors but few if any can even approach that of nursing and the ones that do, as in the case of docs, are usually much better compensated for it..

To the OP: I'm no English scholar by any stretch of the imagination but if you are a nurse (with a business degree), and especially if you are going to medical school, I would think you will have to improve upon your use of grammar/spelling dramatically. As someone who has been taking college courses on and off for years, I have not had a single instructor who would have overlooked such errors. I'm not flaming you, it is going to be a very real issue should you decide to further your education.

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.

A couple of posts on this thread (on page 7) show my reason for why i think that a portion of the shortage is caused by other nurses. :stone

[ Like I said am a new nurse that graduated with my BSN and also with a Business degree. So I am keen to pick up on why things do not work. ]

...

Nurses that eat their young...well..yes some do, but on the other hand a preceptor sometimes has to be tough in order to ensure that the new nurse will be competent on their own...I want to make sure that the person will be able to intervene in a patient situation and/or know their resources..you won't always have someone there to bail you out.

I apologize for my rudeness..I do get somewhat offensive when newbies try to come in and tell us OLDIES what our problem is. Experience here does have the upper hand only in that we have been dealing with it much longer. And that is not to say a fresh perspective doesn't help, just be constructive with it!

Wow! You don't need to apologize for anything...you are absolutely right!

(I'd like to add a little levity...our instructor in nursing school had us watch "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest." She told us specifically, that before we judge Nurse Ratched we need to think about what we just might be like after a few years working in a psychiatric ward and we might understand things from her perspective a little better. Even after a few years of working in a nursing home I ALREADY understand!)

As a person gets older and needs more health care, they will also need more doctors, more specialists. They will need more labs drawn, need more phlebotomists, lab techs, pharmacists, X-ray techs, physical therapists, medical billing people, and on and on.

Explain why there are no "shortages" in these fields?

Actually, there are shortages in other health care areas. For example, here's some articles on shortages involving pharmacists, respiratory and physical therapists:

http://www.latimes.com/classified/jobs/silver/la-silver040808,0,1015400.htmlstory?coll=la-class-employ-silver

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002009958_therapists15.html

http://www.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/12/12/pharmacists.shortage/

You may notice that a couple of the articles mention the aging baby boom generation as a reason for the shortages.

And, there are probably more shortages in professions requiring more education ... since more education presents more barriers to entry into the field. Therefore, you'd probably be short on nurses, pharmacists and therapists, but not necessarily short on techs, phelbotomists and billing clerks.

;)

I agree with your statement about the abuse cycle. And I think it is something that often has its roots in nursing programs when nursing students get vindictive instructors who are either verbally abusive to them or just vindictive and mean. It seem to have the strange effect of turning ordinarily "kind and regular" students into future abusers. It reminds me of the military and their "pinning ceremonies". When new pilots earn their wings, the CO's take the wings and pound the steel pin (that attaches to the tie tack) into the new pilot's bare chest with their fist. It's a stupid "rite of passage" to see how much pain they can take ("get in one final lick before they graduate"). What happens 10 or 15 years later? The pilots who were pinned do the same thing to a new class of graduates. It's a "heh I had to go through it, so you damn well are going to go through it to". I think some nursing instructors have the same thought process, and it does have a negative affect on new nurses. I personally was never treated badly by nurses at clinicals. They weren't all cheery and happy, a few had a rather cool attitude toward me- but they were never rude or abusive toward me. On the other hand, I, and some of my unfortunate classmates, have had to endure certain clinical instructors who seemed almost sociopathic in their efforts to demean students and try to fail them on clinicals and in their courses. What is the end result of this? A new batch of graduated nurses, both male and female, who may already feel a little jaded and ticked off as they begin practicing the profession - and perhaps a few of them will evolve into the next generation of "pinners".

I do think that nurses themselves have played a part in what is percieved as a nursing "shortage" but I think the number1 reason is too many pts per nurse.

You said it yourself- new grads leaving because of unsafe pt loads-

These are young nurses, new grads leaving. I think it is a myth that nurses getting older and retiring is the reason for the "shortage."

As for why some nurses "eat their young" here is my theory-

We all know that many people whom have been abused as children grow up to abuse their own children, and those children may likely abuse their children, and the cycle perpetuates itself.

I think the same thing is happening in nursing. So many nurses have been treated like crap and abused for so long, that they now abuse "their young", and many of those bright-eyed, eager young nurses may someday become beaten down, unhappy, bitter women who perpetuate the cycle by being hateful to the new nurses coming along, and so it goes.

I think that many in nursing feel devalued, impotent, powerless. They feel like victims. Just as in childhood abuse, sometimes the only time a victim does not feel like a victim is when they take on the role of the abuser.

I believe this is why many nurses "eat their young."

what do you think if nurses had a union as strong as the massachusetts police in which they control the state legislators..

the legislators will not dare take away their 'details' even though many are found to be 'double dippin':uhoh3:

It would be the equivalent of physicians controling administrators in health care facilities today.........!

Even JCAHO has realized that patient casualties are tied to gaps in nursing -as reported in my previous activism post.

Health Care at the Crossroads: Strategies for Addressing the Evolving Nursing Crisis

See: Create a Culture of Retention and Ways to Bolsture Nursing Infrastructure (all but decimated in most facilities due to budget cutting) in report.

From pg 30 of report:

"Once hired, new nurses receive an average of 30 days of training, in contrast with the three months of hands-on training provided five years ago.123"

THIS IS HAPPENING WHILE PATIENT ACUITY IS SKY HIGH!! Know wonder burnout is happening!

From Pg 31:

"Graduate medical education, which is funded in substantial part through the Medicare program, is standardized by discipline under

the purview of the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education. For nursing, there are no structured residency programs,no standards, no oversight body to assume that the standards are met, and no funding."

SOLUTIONS offered on Pg 33 include:

"Establish standardized post-graduate nurse residency programs, a nursing equivalent of the Accreditation Council for

Graduate Medical Education, and funding to support this training."

Check out and support the recommendations JCAHO are suggesting. In your meetings with administration, trot out this report, for JCAHO has a lot of weight in getting conditions CHANGED (for fear of losing accreditation).

+ Add a Comment