Hey, Managers! What's up with the "weeding out" of good nurses?

[UM Review RN]

Recently there's been a spate of write-ups I've heard about that are basically bogus. Minor infractions that no one else would get written up over. I'm furious.

On the surface, it doesn't seem to be a big deal. But anyone who's been in health care can tell you--our nursing culture teaches us that bogus write-ups are a warning to get outta Dodge; it's useless to fight; easier to just change units.

So these nurses have all left for greener pastures.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the nurses were targeted because they earned more than new grads. Because coincidentally, there are a few new grads on each of these units, and the basic "numbers" of the nurses has not changed. In years.

So 'fess up, Managers, what's the deal? Is this what really is happening out there? Is your budget such that it looks better for you to keep the new grads rather than the experienced nurses? Do you use bogus writeups to "encourage" certain nurses to leave?

Or is something else afoot here?

[littlecheese]

Where I work, not only are the write ups frequent, but the administrators are looking. I have had my director come behind me and ask others she know will give her the answers she wants just so she can conference another staff member. I agree that it has to do with money. The more newer GN's come in, the more the adminstrators look for something to be wrong with those who are paid more.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

iwhat i was talking about earlier was how the nursing instructors act the same as nurse managers. they decided who they like and who they don't and god help you if you get on their bad side. i worked in the medical feild for ten years before i went to be a nurse. i told myself i needed a full understanding of what i was getting in to. i knew from the time i was 8 yrs old i was going to be a nurse. i don't think new grads are quite because they let people run all over them. i myself try to be respectfull of a more seasoned nurse because that is what i was taught. i believe the exact words from my instructor to the class was keep you mouth shut and don't rock the boat. olny second quess if it's going to kill your pt. they managers are there for a reason and that reason is that they know more than you.

i'm having difficulty understanding your point. you say "i don't think new grads are quite because they let people run all over them." you don't think new grads are quite what? i don't understand.

then you say "they managers are there for a reason and that reason is that they know more than you." again, i don't really understand what you're trying to say. "they managers?"

managers on nursing units are there for a reason, but you're mistaken if you think the reason is that they know more than an experienced bedside nurse. some of them do, many of them may. but many of them don't know a blessed thing about the job they're supposed to be supervising. they're there for a different job entirely, and the skill set they have or are developing is a very different skill set from that of a bedside nurse. while managers probably know more than you as a student or a brand new nurse, what they know about bedside nursing is usually far less than what i know. they know more politics, budgeting, hiring, discipline, etc. than i do. not knocking managers, but it's a different job. as fast as technology advances, they don't have time to keep up with what we know and still do their own jobs! (although many of them think they're still current.)

[crystalcross1]

well for one ruby that post was not directed at you and sorry for the typing errors i'm a little sick right now. if you read what i wrote along with the posts from angie you would see i was talking about what i was told in nursing school. i was making a point to her that the meekness of new grads aren't because they want to be ran all over or that they don't know how to stand up for themselves but because they are doing what they were taught to do. another point is if the pay is why admin is pushing out older nurses for new grads why don't you do something about it like start a petition where everyone gets the same pay rather than a fluxuating scale.

i'm having difficulty understanding your point. you say "i don't think new grads are quite because they let people run all over them." you don't think new grads are quite what? i don't understand.

then you say "they managers are there for a reason and that reason is that they know more than you." again, i don't really understand what you're trying to say. "they managers?"

managers on nursing units are there for a reason, but you're mistaken if you think the reason is that they know more than an experienced bedside nurse. some of them do, many of them may. but many of them don't know a blessed thing about the job they're supposed to be supervising. they're there for a different job entirely, and the skill set they have or are developing is a very different skill set from that of a bedside nurse. while managers probably know more than you as a student or a brand new nurse, what they know about bedside nursing is usually far less than what i know. they know more politics, budgeting, hiring, discipline, etc. than i do. not knocking managers, but it's a different job. as fast as technology advances, they don't have time to keep up with what we know and still do their own jobs! (although many of them think they're still current.)

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

well for one ruby that post was not directed at you and sorry for the typing errors i'm a little sick right now. if you read what i wrote along with the posts from angie you would see i was talking about what i was told in nursing school. i was making a point to her that the meekness of new grads aren't because they want to be ran all over or that they don't know how to stand up for themselves but because they are doing what they were taught to do. another point is if the pay is why admin is pushing out older nurses for new grads why don't you do something about it like start a petition where everyone gets the same pay rather than a fluxuating scale.

this is a public forum, not a private discussion. if you don't wish people to read your posts, the best thing would be to pm the person to whom you are directing your comments. or use poor spelling, punctuation and grammar so that fewer people bother to wade through it to try to comprehend your point. oh, wait . . . . i get it now. my bad.

i'm sorry that you're a little sick right now. so am i. disabled, in fact. (short term, i hope!) your point wasn't clear. it still isn't.

and as for a flat pay scale -- what a bad idea!

hope you feel better.

[Gamma]

I find this topic rather interesting as it seems this is an international problem. What I have observed is that these so called managers are frequently in the "over 50" age bracket themselves with control issues. They have been in their positions for some time, have not kept their knowledge base current and could not even begin to do all that is required of a staff nurse today. They feel their positions are threatened by someone who can rise to the task at hand and therefore must get rid of them. Since most places are protected by unions they cannot just fire them so they make it as unappealing as possible to work there. They will often set staff against each other as well to discourage a united supportive group who might expose them for what they really are. After getting rid of good nurses they proceed to hire nurses who come from areas where subservience is the rule, and wages were the pitts. Those people will never question the antics of those narcicistic managers, and if they did they are not about to confront them about them. That secures the control managers feel is slipping away from them.

[Deb2]

OK, now that we have established that this does indeed happen, what does one do?

I have gotten two interviews up to the salary offer stage and "something comes up". Although there are several (too many actually) hospitals in my area, my specialty is fairly 'inbred', ie lots of interaction.

Is there a diplomatic way to get to the bottom of this? I have not been asked why I left my last employment in either interview.

Do we need a new thread for this?

[Simplepleasures]

I see it happening to a few people that I know to be nurses of high caliber, and I have to ask why--my reason for starting this thread.

A couple have decided, as you have, to turn that negative into a positive by moving on, and are in the process of changing jobs.

A couple more are trying to stick it out. But it really breaks my heart to hear ANY GOOD, EXPERIENCED nurse say, with tears in her eyes and anguish in her voice, that she comes to work every day expecting that this will be the day that she is fired.

It just breaks my heart.

As Tweety said a few posts ago, we nurses who do chart checks and who follow the other nurses really know who are the best nurses on any particular unit, because we're reviewing those charts more frequently than any review committee or manager.

If someone was written up for a mistake, I am sympathetic, but if they ask me if it was justified, they know they'll get support as long as they realize that most times, a writeup is a wakeup call to make some adjustments in an area where they're weak. If it's taken in that spirit, I feel that most of us could rise to the challenge and improve, given half a chance.

I have no quibble with the manager who is fair, who is equitable. But if I make a mistake and you write me up for it, don't let SallyB get away with the same exact mistake, because we will see that as favoritism. Because it IS.

I came across this thread and was blown away to actually hear such an in depth discussion about what I have been seeing for the 27 years Ive been a nurse.I think this topic is worthy of bringing back into discussion inlight of some of the comments that have been bandied about by a few managers regarding their "sloppy, stupid, slacker" nurses.I think there is alot of reasons nurses could get justifyably fired ,but Ive seen too much of management taking a dislike to a strong nurse, who may be an excellent nurse, and getting rid of her while keeping the true slackers because they are "team players".

[UM Review RN, ASN, RN]

Oh, and BTW, the nurse who tried to stick it out in this story.......was fired last week.

I know she was a good nurse; I followed her a lot. Charts were complete, meds were given, care was appropriate.

I grieve for our profession when I see how high an ethic is demanded of us toward patients, but not toward each other.

[Simplepleasures]

Angie, Ive been reading some of your posts and you are my hero, my soul mate, if you were a man Id marry you!!:chuckle

[jbp0529]

Angie:

Your posts have really struck a cord with me regarding this topic; it is very interesting. I suppose I find it interesting bc the private hospital I came from was notorious for "weeding out" nurses who had minor infractions. It also seemed like many nurses would play the " I gotcha" game and write each other up over silly things (like an aspirin that was re-timed and given 2 hours from the original time). Management would then pick favorites and punish one person and not another.

However the large teaching hospital I work at now doesn't seem to mind anything at all. It seems one has to almost kill a patient in order to get disciplined! Makes me wonder if all of this has something to do with the environment of a large institution where your boss barely knows your name, compared to a smaller one where everyone can see your dirty laundry.

[twotrees2]

I have seen this happening too Angio! I think you are on the money...no pun intended! In fact, I had to leave my job at that ALF that I worked in for 4 years because they put RN's to only part-time (they told me two days max a week!) so they didn't have to pay higher wages and benifits out!!!! I couldn't live on that and had to go! Talk about a subtile boot out huh??? GRRRRRRRRR!

Thank goodness the facility I am working now (great hospital community with ONA as a large force and most of the administration are NURSES!) people are protected much more than other places I have worked in. Seniority is a big bonus, and a goal for all the nurses there (so nurses stay!). I am happy about that, and also plan on being there for many years!

But who knows...if management or admin changes...will I still have that wonderful benifit of staying??? Will things change and me and the other wonderful nurses get aced out for lower waged nurses??? You just never know!

yeah - one never knows - the place i work at now was great - in the last 4 mo or so its gotten bad- management changing ( and yes they are nurses - ones right off the floor who just were complaining right with us but have seemed to acclimate to rude management quite well.

[twotrees2]

I am experiencing the same problem at work right now. It has gotten me so paranoid and afraid that I even got a new username to even reply to this thread.

I have been with this hospital for almost 2 years. I was working PRN for a while and was asked by the DON to come back to work Full Time. She really believed that I was a great nurse, did an excelent job, and really wanted me to be there full time again. I was working PRN at a different job at the time and she got HR to almost match my PRN pay so that I would be able to come back to work. I also had to have 1 specific day a week off and was told that would be no problem. (We work 12's so I only have to work 3 days/week. 1 day off leaves 6 days to pick from). Shortly after that the DON left and a new DON was brought in. Then the trouble began.

Here is pretty much what was said and what has happened:

"I have read each and every one of your personel files before I ever came. If your old DON gave you a good review, I know that you are really only average, because my standarts are higher."

"I want to let each and every one of you know that you can be replaced. I have lots of nurses applying and just waiting to come and take your place."

"Any agreement you had with your old DON is meaningless. There is nothing on paper, so I can make you work whatever I want to."

When I informed her that I need to have my 1 specific day off. "You will work whatever we schedule you. THIS is your full time job." We basically have to be avaliable 7 days a week to work.

Lots of Bogus write ups. People written up for "x # of patients have complained about this." or "x # of coworkers have complained about this." No paper record of any kind about the complaint. But a paper trail in your file for when they want to fire you.

On my shift of about 30 people that worked before the DON there is only about 10 people left that worked there 3 months ago.

The new competent nurses that are just waiting to take our jobs are brand new grads with no experience, nurses from other areas with no hospital experience. Some of them are eager to learn and are quick to pick up. Others have been told over and over again how to not make the same mistake, and get angry and defensive when you try to correct them.

If you mention any complaints or concerns to management than there is another piece added to your personel-file paper trail regarding your 'Bad Additude and unwillingness to work with others.'

Experienced competent nurses are send home when the census is low, but the cheaper nurses who have only worked there 1 month are allowed to stay.

People get written up for calling in twice due to family being sick, but they have no problem canceling your shift 1/2 the time. Not showing up for work is ok if it benefits the company.

Nurses who have been there longer are written up for the same things that are going unoticed when the newer nurses make the same mistake.

Patient care has gone down the drain in this hospital. We have been told that it is perfectely fine for us to take care of 7-8 patients by ourselfes with one tech for a total of 32 patients, because thats how they do it at x hospital.

Policies are randomly replaced, often on a whim by management.

Substandart equipment is being rented, because it saves the company money.

And the person that suffers the most is the patient.

I am pretty sure I cannot put up with this much longer.

The "nursing shortage" is a direct result of nurses being driven away from the bedside not because of having to deal with patients, but having to deal with management.

shoot - if you were in wisconsin id say youwork in my place lol - exactly whats hapening with it - sorry your going through it - it sucks- and its not fair.