Do I have any legal recourse???

jojotoo, RN · May 24, 2007

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

(Edmund Burke 1729-1797)

This instructor may not be a serial killer, but if the OP has described the scenario accurately, she has abused her power - and over something rather petty. And now she may be interfering with his ability to earn a living. How many other lives has she negatively impacted?

Only an attorney can tell if there is a viable legal case here.

edgwow · May 24, 2007

Sometimes you get an interview and sometimes you don't. Because you're new you just don't know this. There are other places to work. If you filled out the application, that is permission to have your references checked. Make sure when filling out the next application, for a reference, put an instructor that you got along with well. This is a life lesson, not an attorney issue. Save yourself further aggravation.

TrudyRN · May 24, 2007

I agree it will be hard to prove. I agree I know how you feel - someone in authority, with power, who should be pure is shown to be egotistical and corrupt. Too late, we realize that we now (possibly) must pay for having had the courage to speak up.

I have a suggestion for you. Ask the interviewer what you can do to make yourself more attractive as a potential employee. If you get the run around, it is probably time to move on. I don't think I'd be too confrontational or too pointed in my talk with her, though. Or, you could just say that you are wondering if possibly the reluctance to hire you had anything to do with an event that occurred when you were a student. Somehow work into the talk that a former NAMELESS instructor might have said you were hard-nosed and argumentative when, in fact, you were a student and just trying to get the correct information. You never meant to hurt her pride but fear you might have. You have learned that your approach was not the best, you sincerely believe this hospital is a super place to work and will literally die if you can't work there and you just wanted to clear up this misunderstanding. Could you folks please take another look at me and reconsider? Just be super mellow, totally courteous, not a bit threatening. Admit you were unwise to be so adamant and you realize you made a social faux pas but you have learned your lesson.

Actually, this is a lesson I also had to learn. I can win the battle but lose the war. Not good but I have, at long last, learned and I hope you do, too. You already the Nursing community is a small one and that a reputation is easy to sully. I hope you can restore yours.

The tables might be turned someday - this former instructor might be wanting a job where you are in charge. Maybe not but you can enjoy the dream. Good luck.

TrudyRN · May 24, 2007

Ok, so I've got a pretty big issue with a former instructor of my RN program and I'm really wondering if I can get a lawyer over it!!
To start out, my second semester in school, she had a question that I felt was incorrect. I followed protocol to petition the question, a senior instructor even agreed that my evidence proved the question was incorrect. The long and short of it... because of her ego, she ended up YELLING at me in her office and refused to drop the question. I wouldn't let it go, so I brought it to our head of nursing. I never heard anything back, but low and behold... Fall semester of the 2nd year rolls around... and that instructor no longer teaches there. However, she is still "staff" and oversees a few clinical groups. So, she's still affiliated with the college.
Well... now here's the problem. Keep in mind, I never had this woman for my clinical instructor, just for lecture a few times.
Now she is a nurse educator at the hospital I applied to. My friend works on the floor that I applied to, the ACU. I gave the supervisor my resume at an open house and filled out their online application. Everyone had heard back and gotten interviews, but not me... not a word. I talk to my friend, and he told me that he'd talked to his supervisor and she said "Oh, he had a great looking resume, I'm going to get in touch with him."
... well, two weeks later, he asks her if she's called me and she says she's gotten a bad reference on me.
1. I never gave out references
2. EVERYONE who's ever worked with me absolutely LOVES me
3. This former "instructor" is the only person who works at the college AND the hospital
So, I know it was her and so does everyone else. The problem is, how do I prove that she said something. More importantly, how do I make sure I'm not blackballed by this HACK of an instructor ... who *shudder* is now a nurse educator at the facility I want to work in.
What do I do??? ... besides hire someone to kneecap her in the parking lot, of course.

It is most curious to me that an HR type would tell someone other than you anything about you, like getting a bad reference. Right there you might have legal grounds/recourse against HR.

Curious - what was the question/misinformation?

Don't assume your challenge had anything to do with her not teaching there any more.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · May 24, 2007

First, you will have a difficult to impossible case proving that this instructor slandered you. Unless there is something in writing, you really won't have much of a case.

Second, do you really want to work at a place that would treat like this - you will face an uphill battle, trying to prove yourself, and will be under the microscope.

Third, suing over issues like these generally back fire on you. Unless you have an established pristene nursing work record, you risk alienating future employers if the find out that you sued over something like....and they will find out. Do they really want to risk offering a job to someone that sues over hearsay?

If this did go to court, whether you win or lose...you really will probably lose more than you gain, by burning future bridges. Whether it is fair or not, lawsuits are likely to turn off future employers, who do not have to give any reason not to hire you. And many will opt not to hire you, rather than risk a big showdown in the future, over why this or that happened, etc.

anonymurse · May 24, 2007

If I were dropped into your shoes, I'd chalk it up and move on. Try moving it from the realm of right/wrong into the realm of possible action. Now at the very least, unless you can find a way to bypass her desk in the process (which is always possible), then it means having to tell your whole story, and that's going to make you look like a conspiracy theorist unless the person listening to you has been similarly victimized plus has the power to override her--a long shot. What I mean, when you find yourself in a hole, first thing to do is stop digging. Go elsewhere and live long and prosper.

aKyRN81 · May 24, 2007

First, you will have a difficult to impossible case proving that this instructor slandered you. Unless there is something in writing, you really won't have much of a case.
Second, do you really want to work at a place that would treat like this - you will face an uphill battle, trying to prove yourself, and will be under the microscope.
Third, suing over issues like these generally back fire on you. Unless you have an established pristene nursing work record, you risk alienating future employers if the find out that you sued over something like....and they will find out. Do they really want to risk offering a job to someone that sues over hearsay?
If this did go to court, whether you win or lose...you really will probably lose more than you gain, by burning future bridges. Whether it is fair or not, lawsuits are likely to turn off future employers, who do not have to give any reason not to hire you. And many will opt not to hire you, rather than risk a big showdown in the future, over why this or that happened, etc.

Old-time saying might apply here...."What goes around comes around".

No implication of 'rightness' or 'wrongness'.

clee1 · May 24, 2007

... what I DO have a problem with, however, is ethics and incompetence. The fact that she is badmouthing me for sticking up for what I knew was right and then having her give me a bad reference for doing exactly what a TRUE advocate should do... that goes against everything a nurse stands for in my opinion. I won't be badmouthed for standing up for what I believe in... especially when I do it in a professional matter and end up being right. I guess I forgot to mention the fact that the answer she stood so fast beside... could end up costing a patient their life... which is what I was so adamant at pointing out :)
Anyway, I'll go for the throat in a case like this if I have a leg to stand on... not just because I don't like her, but because it's ethically and morally wrong as far as I'm concerned.

You GO nurse! This profession needs MANY more just like you.

Jo Dirt · May 24, 2007

People make mistakes, and yes, many instructors are not willing to own up to them. We had a teacher in nursing school who made a very obvious mistake and when one of us attempted to tell her about it she got very annoyed and insisted it was the way she said it was.

You know what we said? Yes ma'am.

In the future, better to just realize when it is best to go along to get along rather than being so insistent on proving you're "right" and then keep trying to rub it in. There is something to be said for someone who can just let certain things go.

In other words, humble yourself. No one is impressed with a know-it-all, especially one who can't let something go. She may have realized she was wrong yet her ego wouldn't let her admit it. It sounds as though two egos could have been butting heads, though.

If it was an obvious life-threatening mistake there might have been an exception. But really, look at things in an objective way to determine what is worth causing a lot of trouble over and what is something to let go. Principles are good to have but to be beneficial they must be used in conjunction with common sense.

llg, PhD, RN · May 24, 2007

Third, suing over issues like these generally back fire on you. Unless you have an established pristene nursing work record, you risk alienating future employers if the find out that you sued over something like....and they will find out. Do they really want to risk offering a job to someone that sues over hearsay?
If this did go to court, whether you win or lose...you really will probably lose more than you gain, by burning future bridges. Whether it is fair or not, lawsuits are likely to turn off future employers, who do not have to give any reason not to hire you. And many will opt not to hire you, rather than risk a big showdown in the future, over why this or that happened, etc.

Exactly. To a prospective employer, it doesn't matter whether the OP was right or wrong about the test question. It also doesn't matter whether or not the instructor was a jerk or not. All that will matter is that the OP couldn't handle the situation more "artfully." He'll have the reputation of a trouble-maker and that alone is enough to hurt his future chances of getting a job.

Some fights are not worth fighting -- even if they valid.