Atkins Diet - page 5
Hello, I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about the Atkins diet??? I have been hearing good things about it again, and I was thinking of trying it. I have never been on a diet before... Read More
Dec 1, '02Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 2,066; Likes: 12Ah... the carbohydrate withdrawl........I did the same thing when I quit smoking..... This is discussed in the book! LOL. ( Baseline be quiet ..... you're getting boring with that darn BOOK)
Thanks for the link!!!!!! :-)
Dec 1, '02Occupation: Registered Nurse/CVICU Specialty: 31 year(s) of experience in CVICU/SICU/CCU/HH/ADMIN ; From: US ; Joined: Dec '00; Posts: 60; Likes: 18Agnus, you can use maltitol or a mix of boxed Splenda and maltitol in your cheesecake (same amount, cup for cup), and you'll never know the difference. I use Steel's crystal or syrup maltitol in baking and ice cream, and their powdered maltitol is a perfect substitute for powdered sugar. Wonderful stuff. But you can buy the Hauser's maltitol on their website, too. You can make peanut brittle, fudge, etc. with it, too.
Carb withdrawal is normal--most of us are addicted to a high carb diet--which increases our blood sugar and insulin levels, causing all sorts of chemical reactions in our bodies. And we get cranky and feeling out of sorts without the high level of carbs (notice I did not say NO carbs). Same way you do if you quit smoking; doesn't mean cigarettes are good for you just cause you get nicer and feel more calm when you start smoking again. And if you do the RESEARCH, you'll learn all about the chemical stuff.
If you're planning on going on a low carb diet, you should do the research first, plan for your cravings by having low carb stuff on hand to substitute--my craving was sweets--so I found some delicious sweet recipes, made them up and froze them in individual servings--made it so much easier. Since then, I've found so many good recipes in such variety, I do not miss the sugar and flour laden stuff. The nurses at work love my baked goods made with nut flours and so does my family. You can't tell there's no flour and sugar in them.
Lost a total of 45 pounds--which is what I wanted to lose--and though a lot of it was water at first ( as it is even with a low fat or other diet), I can't believe you'd think it all was water--and I've kept it off for nearly two years without feeling deprived and hungry.
Dec 1, '02Occupation: retired Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 15After the first 3 weeks I didn't feel the cravings for carbs as much..as time has gone on, I seldom ever feel them! I don't feel the need to eat them any more as I have my LC goodies. YEP!
Dec 1, '02Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 60,384; Likes: 16,559smag16 - you said "Did 2 years of research 14-16 hours a day.." and I'm very impressed with that. You must be rich and not have to work. LOL
Thanks for info. That makes sense. When I first became a vegetarian I was eating all the wrong foods, low fat yes, but white pasta and high glycemic foods. I feel much better adding more protein and getting rid of anything white. Where I differ is that I changed from white to whole grain. And I added more protein and healthy fats like olive oil and flax and nuts.
I definately absolutely feel much better when I avoid meat (subbing soy products like tofu and tempeh), and high glycemic foods, and lots of colorful fruits and veggie.
I think we are only now beginning to realize how rises and falls in insulin and blood glucose levels affect us.
My question is do you think they are backing up from the idea that saturated fat and high cholesterol foods cause coronary artery disease and that it's high glycemic foods? Still having trouble with a hamburger patty being healthier than a carrot. LOL
Dec 1, '02Occupation: retired Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 15You don't have to be 'rich" to not work..just thrifty!! It also helps to chose a husband who not only adores you to destraction but who can afford you as his wife!! Like getting 3 wishes in life...chose well!!!
I am also 60 years old and have been around the block a few times and have seen things you can't imagine...have been poor as a church mouse when I was young too!!
Education is the name of the game. Who educates you is what's important too!
And remember the more you learn the faster you learn!! Formal classes eventually become too slow and you get burdened down with busy work...I had a life to save...my lover's!! My lover of nearly 30 years!!!!! Isn't that why we became nurses to begin with? To HELP folks!?
Now as to your question...plain speak... animal fat is what you are designed to burn as fuel...the carbs from veg. such as the very dark colored ones are great for your brain. You get carbs from nuts too. Remember this isn't a carb FREE way of eating.
In addition to lo carb...
We don't use veg.oils...only grapeseed oil and first cold pressed olive oil laced with BHT that I add. I also add it to my butter. It is a very strong antioxidant...has other wonderful qualities too..
And, YES, the steak is better than the hamburger and the steak is better than the carrots! (Yes ... with the FAT!) Why not have BOTH?!?!?! Remember all that research I did and do! Heamiron is not good for you ... comes form all those broken up red blood cells in the ground meat also the fat is exposed to air and it will oxidize before you even consume it.
Check out the smoking points of various oils and fats..when they are heated they oxidize!
Now think of the temp of your body...think how the already oxidized oils are further oxidizd. All veg. oils are heated to produce them..they are oxidized to some degree when you consume them...then they stay at 98.6 in your body. Ever have a bottle of veg. oil go rancid and get really sticky if left out in the heat for a week or two. That's what is going on in your body. It isn't the lipid panels at all... it if the fats are oxidized or not!! If they aren't oxidized they won't stick and they won't stick if the arterial walls aren't irritated by the high insulin from all the carbs.
Now as for the "thinking" to change.. I doubt it seriously! Who educates the doctors? What is their bottom line? WHY?
Who will lose money if the "thinking" changes? Ever look at all the carbs in the grocery store... all the various oils? Read the labels of all the lo fat foods... check out the carb counts. Why is CVD increasing...type 2 diabetes....obesity? Remember in the first grade when you learned that carb convert to sugars? We knew this little tid bit in the 40s and 50s!! Too much sugar and it gets stored as FAT!! Fat doesn't make fat unless the sugar is there....
check out these words...glycosylated haemoglobin, glycosylation,
glycation. The reactions of sugar protiens wth long chain fatty acids are what I am currently studying...not much work has been done in this area!
I cannot tell you of the many cardiologists that roll their eyes at me to my face..I have taken them 6"high stacks of the research papers to read..they all say the same thing to me as I am blown off.."I don't have time to read THAT!!" They have time to listen to that drug salesman....
I have not only had to bring DH back from the edge of death as the Cardiologists gave up on him..but to reverse the adverse effects of three years of statin use which killed of mitrochondria in his brain and muscle tissue (the heart is a muscle too) causing amnesia, personality changes for the worse, emotional lability, lethargic, insomina, nocturia, cognitive deficits, depression, anxiety, confusion, and dropping his testosterone levels to that of an 11 year boy. (And consider that he was an air traffic controller at the time and was working in a huge airport! I was worried sick about him! ) And these same cardiologists tell me that there were no side effects to statins he was taking. Also consider that the 3 arteries that the doc's couldn't do anything for closed up while he was on the statins and very low fat diet!!
CVD "ain't" pretty...nowhere... nohow!! Well, he doesn't have it any more ..eating great amouts of animal fat and dropping all his prescriptions! He only takes the suppliments that I give to him to keep the fats from oxidizing! And wouldn't go back to low fat for the world!! Carbs make you feel bad! They make you retain water and for CHF that's not good either.
It's the CARBS! It's the veg. oils getting oxidized. Not the animal fats!!
The independent scientists know this...their papers are published and out there for you to read. They are dry and boring...and they take time to learn and understand...but they are there for the reading! I read them...lots of them!!
It saved my DH ... my best friend, fishing buddy, and lover! I got him back!! He hated switching from Pepsi to Dite Rite (no aspertame) now he likes them, but he got over his addiction to Pepsies...the sugar.
" Sugar in the morning, Sugar in the evening, Sugar at supper time!"
Dec 1, '02Occupation: home health nurse (self-pay and insurances) Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 37; Likes: 1smag16, could you please explain this a little more? Thanks.
"Very strong antioxidants are the key to this entire problem."
(Inquiring minds want to know, ha!)
Dec 2, '02Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 60,384; Likes: 16,559Wow smag16 what a great story! Are all people alike? Is high carb a killer regardless? Or are different bodies different.
I have never been overweight (a few pounds maybe, but basically lean most of my life), have eaten primarily vegetarian the last ten years. I am not low fat, but eat veggie oils and scant animal fat. I eat scant white flour or sweets. My labs look flawless. Am I doomed? I'm encouraged by Dr. Ornish, whose proved scientifically that one could reverse coronary artery disease with low fat vegetarian food. (But his diet is way to low fat for me, plus I don't have CAD that I know of).
I have seen some very unhealthy low fat diets (i.e. I can eat low fat chips, fat free cookies and brownies, etc.)
But you have proved, one can reverse heart disease without regard to fat, but low carb.
I know that sugar in the morning, sugar in the evening is bad. So is white anything, but still confused. sigh.Last edit by Tweety on Dec 2, '02
Dec 2, '02Occupation: retired Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 15I wrote it.. you reason it out! Read..do some research.. you're smart..you can do it.
BHT is a very strong antioxidant. Research ...read all you can on it...also learn the pathways through the liver.
Here are just a few research sites that are good...
http://highwire.stanford.edu/ http://www.gsdl.com/ http://www.bioscience.org/
Try Northernlight search engine.
Once you get one paper, read the references used in its basis and call those up. A great site is Harrison's Principals of Internal Medicine, chapter 247 which explains atherogenesis.
Also try National Library of Medicine, Medline, Pubmed, and individual universities.
Some of the papers have to be bought, but if your hospital subscribes to them or your doc will allow you to have his/her pass word if he subscribes, you are on your way to knowledge!
Don't take my word for any of this!! Read and study for yourself!
As my research progressed and I learned so much, I could no longer continue in my profession as an RN for moral reasons...how could I give a patient statins or serve them a low fat diet knowing what I knew it would do to them.
As for lipid numbers, the doc's cannot know what the right levels are when they don't know what causes atherosclerosis. The average doc' says that cholesterol is sticky and, if it gets high, it just sticks to the walls. All they know is that: as the levels rise, vascular disease rises; that plaque contains cholesterol, which must then be the cause.
A good question to ask is, why do newborns have "fatty streaks" (precursor condition to aortic plaque), in their aortas. He'll be dumbfounded. (Ref: Harrison's on Line) The newborn does not have high cholesterol, but it seems we condition them for heart disease. How does this happen thru the placental barrier? The answer is, "what does momma eat?". All this means that the "EXPERTS" chart a line showing lipids vs cardiovascular disease, and when they see an upward bend, that's the point where it's bad, and less is better.....Great science!!! More like witchcraft.
By th' way, soy is so full of estrogens that they will drop your testosterone levels big time! Also know that if a man's cholesterol isn't high enough that he can't make testosterone (along with many other endocrine hormones)....read about it!!
Like I said ...Don't take my word for it.
Draw your own conclusions from what you study in molecular biolobgy and chemistry...study anthropology, archeology. Pay particular attention to the condition of the teeth and bones..what did folks used to die from?
Ask yourself questions and answer them...
Things like ...when did sugar come into high usage?
What was the sweetener before that?
When did big amounts of grains become part of the diet for those people? WHY?
What did Daniel Boone eat? Why? Where was he most of the time? How long did he live?
When was veg. oil invented? What was the first veg. oil?
From what did folks die before it was invented? Why?
See what I am trying to get you to do? Studying algebra is good for your brain... it trains you to think.. to reason!! Think outside the box for a while!
Blessings!!!Last edit by smag16 on Dec 2, '02
Dec 2, '02Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '99; Posts: 2,950; Likes: 619Here is the original recipe. I will leave it to you who are more experienced with Atkins to make the needed changes. I really think you should try it in it's original form first so you can see how it is supposed to turn out.
Heat oven to 275 degrees. Butter a 9 inch spring-form pan. Dust bottom and sides with a mixture of 1/2 cup fine zwieback or grahm cracker crumbs, 1 Tbsp. sugar and 1/4 tsp. each cinnamon and nutmeg. Pour filling (below) into prepared pan. Bake 70 minutes. Turn off oven and leave in 1 hour. without opening oven door. Remove from oven and cool.
Now this is optional arrange fresh or frozen strawberries on top of completly cool cake. then mix the liquid from the frozen berries or some strawberry syrup, and 1 forth cup sugar (less if using strawberry syrup) with enough water to make 1 cup. Add 2 tbsp of corn starch and cook until thickened. When cool pour over fruit and refrigerate until set. You can easily alter this topping so you are not using sugar and corn starch. Some unflavored jello without sugar would do and use an atrificial sweetner. (your really don't need a whole forth cup sugar anyway) As I said the toping is optional because the cake is the best. VERY moist and Light in Texture. Had people who absolutely HATE cheese cake rave about it. Cheese cake lovers swoon.
OK back to recipe
5 eggs separated (I can hear a joke here)
1 cup sugar
1 pound cream cheese room temp.
1 cup commercial sour cream
2 tsp. flour
1 tsp vanilla
Beat egg yolks until thick and lemon-colored. Gradually beat in sugar. Break up cream cheese; add to egg mixture beating until smooth. Add sour cream, flour and vanilla; continue beating until smooth. Beat egg whites until stiff but not dry. Gently fold into cheese mixture.
I prefer no slamming doors, earth quakes etc until the cake is fianally refrigerated. But I find it does settle some no matter what, and this does not effect it adversely.
If you try it and then find a good way to alter it to make it Atkins acceptable without drastically changing quality let me know.
I will not alter it and keep it just for special occasions as it works so well as it is. After all we can cheat once on special occasions can't we? Maby someone will re***ure me that the 1 cup of sugar divided up into individual slices of cake is not so much carb?
Dec 2, '02Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '99; Posts: 2,950; Likes: 619FLO1216
The book addresses gout which like kidney stones is from crystalized uric acid. Atkins is honest and straight forward about these things. Read the book.
refering to your original post
THANK YOU for the very good explaination. I recall learning this in school but you know somehow all that gets lost, because none of it was really drawn into a whole picuture. I think thats what happened to the medical community and the dietitions. We know this stuff. It is not new. But it is complex and so we oversimplified and desided just don't eat fat.
thanks for drawing it all together in a way that we can digest. (no pun intended)
We learnd isolated parts of a whole and never once was a compelte intergerated picture presented. Nor did we notice that this was happening.
I like your explaination using rancid oil. I can relate to that and it makes more sense.
Refering to later posts also thank didn't know about hamburger. Your a great lady and shame on the MDs one of the first things we learned in pharm is there is no such thing as a drug without side effects.Last edit by Agnus on Dec 2, '02
Dec 2, '02Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 60,384; Likes: 16,559Thanks smag16 for the encourage to use my mind.
I have done quite a bit of mainstream reading on nutrition, but certainly not in-depth studies.
There is a lot of contradictory infomration out there.
You ask yourself what did Daniel Boone eat?
What to the people in Okanawa, Japan eat? (who have the longest life span on earth and virtually no heart disease) (who also eat a lot of soy)
What do the mediterraniean people eat? (Who have virtually no heart disease)
How about the French?
Very challenging. One research article says one thing, another says another. Thanks so much for the information and discussion.
I'll end this conversation now, and keep on reading and hope I'm not killing myself. LOL
Dec 2, '02Occupation: retired Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 15I am talking anthropology...way back!! What did they eat and what took them to their graves...take that look at their teeth..no cavities!!!
Your cheese cake sounds like mine!!
Take out the sugar and add DiabetiSweet...add Splenda...add 1/2 cup of each. Blending artifical sweeteners makes for a better "sweet" flavor.
I really don't think you will miss the flour, but it can be sub.by using EAS whey protein powder from WalMart... make sure it's the one that is very low carb..use the vanilla flavor.
Over at the site that I posted about the recipes you will find more cheesecake recipes than you can shake a stick at!! We eat cheese cake nearly every week!! As a matter of fact I have two nice slices of yellow sheet cake defrosting in the kitchen right now awaiting the moment when DH gets in from work this evening...Can we say candle light dessert?!?!? They are iced with Hershey's own recipe for chocolate icing .. just subbed out the sugar for powdered maltitol and used real..honest to goodness BUTTER!!! The recipe is on the side of the cocoa canister.
Serve your cheesecake with1/3 cup cherry pie filling...Lucky Leaf has sugar free cherry pie filling...1/3 cup has only 8gms. carbs. It tastes just like the sugar kind!! It's good on SF ice cream too!!
For our crusts for cheese cakes, there are a kizillion things to use.. pecans are WONDERFUL!! So are crushed hazelnuts!! We also have various cookies and crackers ...the sweet ones crushed with add a pinch of cinnimon ...your usual taste and mouth feel!! We serve these treats to our guests all the time and no one can tell!!!
Heck we even eat chocolate eclaires!! Everything you could ever want to eat is on this site...FREE!! Read a book..drink water...and snag our recipes!
"What to the people in Okanawa, Japan eat? (who have the longest life span on earth and virtually no heart disease) (who also eat a lot of soy)
Think genetics here!!!
And who would want to live forever..all your friends and relatives would die and you would not have anyone with which you had anything in common...something else to think aobut! And just think about all the learning that you would have to do just to keep up with the culture....no one would have been raised like you were! Wouldn't value what you valued!
Next thing... there is much faulty science in the 'what do these modern day cultures eat" business. You MUST look much deepr into the study that was made..who paid for it..who sponsered it?
Did they have the outcome in mind before the experiment?
How did they look into what these people were eating"
How long did they 'study" it?
Is it repeatable?
How long have Asians been eating soy as a food product?( Hint.. they only used to use it for making soy sauce. )
Soy anything is brand spaking new....considering how long man has roam'd the earth!! See MONEY here!!!
One must look at the data closely...ask the questions!! Answer them for yourself!!
IF Adkins isn't working for you...try The Zone...modify it til you lose the wieght. If you are only wanting to eat heathier... use Adkins and add low glycemic veg. and fruits. .
Remember..this isn't a prison sentence...it's a life choice. When you have to make a decision, you educate yourself! Now get going!!! You don't think about what you can't eat... you think about what you CAN eat!!
ARE sugar and starches THAT important to you that you can't sub them out with something else just as good?
Dec 2, '02Occupation: retired Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 15Angus....
I graduated from a 3 year dipl. nsg sch. back in '63...the patient was the most important person in the hospital... this was drummed into our heads for those 3 years...many 12 hour shifts on top of classes back then! Things were designed to give dignity to the patient ALWAYS...."Mr. and Mrs. So and So" ALWAYS!!
As student nurses we were also taught to know MORE than the doc as your job was to save his scrawney arse!!! We were expected to know more than the folks in the pharmacy too!!
We were asked to think through things like...What if the surgeon dropped dead in the OR....or fainted (see small hospital in rural area back in the 60's) no residents...no interns...you are circulator...you're the one that is ultimately in charge of that OR ...what now? You were expected to be able to finish the surgery for the doc!! So pay attention to what he is doing ...you may have to do it one day! I had surgeons allow me to do appendectomies...start to finish. I have reduced many a broken arm or leg and applied the cast.
Things are very different today! What changed it? Money! Law suits and MONEY! Political Correctness changed it too!!
The doctors are handicapped by insurance and centure to not step out of line in treatments.
Any change in medicine, like hand washing, for instance, was met with derision and scorn!
Sterile technique? Why who ever heard of such a thing?
Remember, "If it 'ain't growin', it's dying!" (This applies to us as well as to plants!!)
As as I was head RN in the RR ..."If it "ain't" breathin' there's no use in doin' anything else for it!!"