Artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo

[ktwlpn]

I posted this here becaue I think this subject is something that we as nurses deal with on a regular basis.....Many many people state that they have a big problem with the feeding being stopped "allowing her to starve to death" The Vatican says " To starve her to death is pitiless" Most everyone agrees that it is one's right to refuse to initiate artificial feeding but somehow this situation "is different" How? The patient "starves to death " in both cases-so why has this one galvanized the WORLD? My husband read me a quote from the Bible -forgive me because I can't remember it in detail-it was something along the lines that a woman marries and leaves her father's house and her husband becomes her family....My husband is my POA I hope no-one in my family questions his motives -He KNOWS exactly what I want....I can't question her husbands motives-I know that some suspect foul play and state the results of a bone scan support this...That bone scan was obtained 53 months after she went into her coma-after her body suffered the effects of her eating disorders for a number of years.... Her present level of responsiveness does not pertain to this matter IMHO-she CAN'T eat naturally--she did not ever want to "be kept alive like that " and she can't state otherwise at this point...So- #1 can someone PLEASE make me see why this case is" DIFFERENT" and #2 How do YOU support your patients and their loved ones when they are agonizing over this decision? ONe thing I always ask is "Did your loved one ever give you any idea of what they would want if something like this happened" and if they did then I advocate that stance for that pt as much possible.......I believe that death is the last great trip we'll go on and we should PLAN it as much as possible.The greatest GIFT we can give to our loved ones is an itinerary...........

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

There IS life in a coma. Perhaps it is easier for some health care workers to believe that there is no life. That the person is an object.

But a person in a coma IS alive. And they feel. And they perceive. I know.

You are not just a blob with no feelings, no thoughts, no caring. It isnt that way.

There are differing degrees of coma, vegetative state depending on the area of the brain damaged.

The locked-in state you describe must be a nightmare.

But where in this thread are people saying they are just a blob with no feelings, thoughts or caring?

Note to self: Stay out of this thread!

[SmilingBluEyes]

good idea Tweety ...I am doing the same. There are no winners here. Not Terri, not her family, not even her "husband".....the whole thing is so sad and sick.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

good idea Tweety ...I am doing the same. There are no winners here. Not Terri, not her family, not even her "husband".....the whole thing is so sad and sick.

Agreed.

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

There are differing degrees of coma, vegetative state depending on the area of the brain damaged.

The locked-in state you describe must be a nightmare.

But where in this thread are people saying they are just a blob with no feelings, thoughts or caring?

Note to self: Stay out of this thread!

I think this thread has been very enlightening for folks. I've actually learned a few things and I completely understand where you are coming from because as a nurse I've seen some things that have frightened me. I would not want to end my life in a vegetative state. Nor would I want to be a quad like Christopher Reeve . . . I can foresee the line moving as to who get their feeding tube pulled . . .things are happening in other parts of the world that are downright scary. And here in America, we are cloning embyros when a few years ago everyone was against cloning . . .

Tweety I can see how scary it would be not to have any rights when it comes to your spouse and vice versa . . .

I think you bring alot to the conversation . . .thanks.

steph

[Overland1, RN]

I question his motives.

Last time she was removed from food/water, her parents wanted a priest to giver her last rites. The husband refused.

There has been a sworn statement from Terri's nurse that her husband came into the room and asked, "is the b*tch dead yet?" and "I am going to be rich!"

What a husband!!!!!! Before she was hospitalized, he probably awakened each morning, headed for the refrigerator to check the milk carton, hoping to find her picture.

The media is not questioning the husband's intentions (which have become quite obvious), but seems to be in favor of D/C'ing the tube feedings. Most of the general public probably thinks that would result in an instant and painless death.

As for the term "heroic measures", I have actually seen where patients have used this incredibly vague term in stating their wishes in writing. Ask any ten doctors, nurses, and/or lawyers what this term really means, and you will likely receive at least a thousand answers.

[DelightRN]

This is the latest on this case, from about 30 minutes ago. The courts aren't going to intervene and stop the withdrawal of artificial nutrition and hydration that is scheduled for Friday.

For some reason my link won't work, so I'll cut and paste here.

Court Won't Intervene in Schiavo Case

Florida State Appeals Court Won't Block Removal of Terri Schiavo's Feeding Tube

TAMPA, Fla. Mar 16, 2005-A state appeals court Wednesday refused to block the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube later this week, shifting the focus in the right-to-die dispute to the Legislature.

The 2nd District Court of Appeal in Lakeland turned down a request by Bob and Mary Schindler for a delay while they pursue further appeals, and for a new trial on their daughter's fate.

The tube is scheduled to be removed on Friday at 1 p.m.

Florida legislators pushed bills to block Michael Schiavo from having his wife's feeding tube removed. The Senate and House were scheduled to consider competing bills Thursday, but negotiators said it would be difficult to reconcile them in time.

"We need to able to talk long and hard about this," said state Rep. Shelley Vana.

Schiavo, 41, suffered severe brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped, and court-appointed doctors say she is in a persistent vegetative state. Her husband, Michael Schiavo, has said she told him she would not want to be kept alive artificially. Her parents dispute that, and say she could get better.

Late last month, Circuit Judge George Greer granted Michael Schiavo permission to remove the feeding tube. After that, it could take a week or two for Terri Schiavo to die.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press.

[~Kitty~]

This situation has caused me to think, what would I want?

I honestly don't think we can say for sure, because we are not in that situation. It is easy to say we wouldn't want to live like that as we live our life now. Perhaps the perceptions of a person in that situation are not the same. Perhaps if Terri has any awareness of herself, she thinks that her life is perfectly fine because that is her life as she knows it now.

What if I told my family now that I would not want to "live like that". But when I find myself in that situation, I don't want to die but can't express that? Maybe I'm overthinking it.

I don't think at this point I would want to create a detailed advance directive. There are so many variables in brain injury/damage. I believe every case is individual. If the same event that happened to Terri happened to us, I believe it is possible that we could all have a different effect. We just don't know what that girl perceives or what is going on in her mind!

Is she aware of what is happening? Is she blissfully unaware, or is she screaming inside for them not to do this to her?

I believe I will take the same approach I have taken to organ donation. Leave it up to my family to judge my situation and trust them to make the best decision they can, with God's help. I would fully expect my husband to work together with my dad and siblings (and children if old enough) to make decisions for me in case of not being able to make my own decisions.

I am appalled that they refuse to offer her PO feeds. Since when did depriving a person of the basic need to be fed become OK??? I can sort of see debate over tube or parenteral feeding.......but PO???

I think if I was a nurse in that home, I would be seeking legal consultation of my own. Because if I thought the girl should be fed I couldn't just "follow orders" and deprive her. What a situation for the nurses caught in the middle!

Apparently to provide basic PO feeds would be a violation of court order.

[moosemnurse]

The hardest decision to make is not starting or stopping artifical feeding. My father had Alzheimer's disease and could not swallow without aspirating. The hospital doctor recommended a feeding tube. My mother was POA for my Dad in this decision. As I am the family nurse she looked to me for guidance. The decision was made by by Dad in his Living Will written when he was well. It very clearly stated no to artifical food/fluids in the event of no future meaningful life. This document made the decision easier for my Mom as she followed his wishes.

This realy makes the case for a Living Will and I hope all of you have one so you are never in the position that Terri and her family are experiencing. My heart goes out to all of them

[Pammie]

I can suspect someone all I want, but there is NO proof. Barring conviction for a crime, I don't think anyone has the right to declare his marriage null and void.

I also suspect the parents motivations btw.

Are any of you aware that he had been awarded quite a sum of money after her incident because he told the courts that he would need it to care for her the rest of her life? He told the courts that he was going to quit his job and spend the rest of his life caring for her, that he would stand by her the rest of her life.

[BeachNurse]

Schiavo's Husband Rejects $1 Million Offer

LAST UPDATE: 3/12/2005 10:30:09 AM

United Press International

A California man has offered Terri Schiavo's husband, Michael, $1 million if he turns over custody of his brain-damaged wife to her parents in Florida.

Robert Herring Sr., 63, of San Diego deposited the cash into an account at his attorney's bank, the St. Petersburg Times reported.

Michael Schiavo's attorney George Felos said the money would not be accepted. He said another offer of $10 million was turned down two weeks ago.

In another development, Clearwater Circuit Judge George Greer refused to allow the Florida Department of Children and Families to intervene in the case. The department had asked for a delay in the March 18 deadline for removing the woman's feeding tube, which has been keeping her alive since she suffered cardiac arrest 16 years ago.

In Washington, Congressional leaders have fast-tracked a bill that could lead to a federal court review of the case. Nearly a dozen conservative groups have been lobbying to prolong Terri Schiavo's life.

http://www.woai.com/news/national/story.aspx?content_id=A58D1F7A-49AA-42CE-94F2-951367F5C6CE

[medsurgnurse, RN]

Quote {Again, if these parents had such a close relationship with their daughter, wouldn't they have known that her husband was beating her? Wouldn't they have known about an eating disorder? }

Those are two things the a person would be extremely secretive about. Someone could have an eating discorder without anyone being aware especially if that person did not become underweight. As the parents were not living in the same house they were probably not aware of her purging activities. Second, women will go to great lengths to hide spousal abuse.

[Pammie]

A friend of mine had a daughter whose husband was abusive. The mom never knew about it until the night the daughter's life was in danger and she got away and went to her mom's. It was THEN that the daughter told all to her mom. They were both close, but she did not want her mom to know this was going on until she had to secretly run from her husband.