are doctors more valued then nurses?

James Huffman · Sep 10, 2002

The questions "Are nurses underpaid?" and "Why do doctors make more than nurses?" are addressing different issues.

When anyone says that nurses are "underpaid," my response is always, "How do you know?" "Underpaid" is a market term, indicating that a nurse or nurses are being paid less than they were promised. (In other words, someone was promised $25 an hour, but is being paid $23 an hour. That's underpaid). But as I've pointed out before, there's no salary fairy up in the sky determining wages -- for nurses or anyone else. And when you include salary, benefits, working conditions and other intangibles, virtually every nurse reading this is being paid something different, and it's something you chose.

Many factors enter into that little dance that determines what you are paid: your educational level, certifications, background, experience and experiences, negotiating skill, and market savvy, among many other things.

Why are doctors paid more? The above factors enter in, but the primary one is that many physicians are self-employed, and have a better understanding of their value than nurses. (Those docs who are not self-employed benefit from those who are self-employed). Doctors are usually more assertive in standing up for what they want. They are usually better at communicating to the public that they feel that their skills are valued and needed. (Nurses continue -- on boards like this, and in more public forums -- to frequently disparage their skills and contributions to the health care industry).

Jim Huffman, RN

http://www.NetworkforNurses.com

Neon8 · Sep 10, 2002

Of course Physicians are more valued than nurses. Without the docs there would be no nurses. It is a fact of life that the more education you have, the more $$$ and less "work" you have to do. I don't mean to say that docs don't work - just that there is always a hierarchy, and docs are at the top.

SmilingBluEyes · Sep 10, 2002

From the feedback I get w/my patients, the answer would be NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! But from the feedback I see coming from administration, I would SAY YES, with a DOUBT! How's that for an answer. it is the TRUTH as far as I CAN SEE!

nurseratchett29 · Sep 10, 2002

Hi everybody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I'm back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!It's been crazy lately and haven't had time to pee. Doctors are more VALUED but we are much more VALUABLE. It's a status issue. They do get paid a lot more (for the most part) but I do know of one particular system that moonlighting attendings get only $17 an hour (not a typo). They also have a VERY high overhead. Most are paying off loans that we cannot even fathom. New PCP's starting out are at the mercy of patients who book appointments and don't show or late cancel. Our newest doc in our practice sometimes only sees 4 patients all day because he's still building his practice but gets stuck with everyone else's sick patients. The specialists make much more money and have much more prestige but again, there is another 2 years of training to be able to be certified. ==Gomer--although your analysis of the ration of M/F MD's /Nurses is correct in general, it does not take into consideration the different areas of specialty. Most Primary Care Physicians (in the Boston area anyway) are now WOMEN. The men are opting for the specialties and also (in our area anyway) it is very difficult to get people to book with male primary care docs. In certain areas of nursing, there are more MALES than females. I have been in ICU's staffed only by men. I see 4-6 patients during the course of my day personally for nurse appointments. This is in addition to processing 30-40 prescriptions a day, managing the flow of patients for 3 doctors, handling all triage calls, and doing all followup lab correspondence. I often spend 1/2 hour with each patient booked in to see me but get paid by the hour while the doc's bill insurance for the nurse/doc. visit. They have to order everything I do so are ultimately responsible for my actions and accordingly, they get paid for it. Whatever I do for the patients that THEY see, gets added to THEIR visit's encounter form and they are able to bill for treatments that I do. Doesn't seem fair, but that's the way it is.

Q. · Sep 10, 2002

I think doctors are more valued by administration and hospitals because they bring in money, whereas nurses are seen as expenses.

I also believe that because nursing is still, and most likely always will be, a female profession, and because we still don't own nor do we make decisions regarding our practice nor are we standardized, will never we make any headway.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2002

Neon,

There were nurses before MDs and there will be nurses after MDs are gone. Nursing occurs even in absence of physicians. Nursing has potential to be so much more important than medicine. We just haven't been utilized that well and too many of us have been convinced that we are nothing without MDs/suits/Adms.

I am an onco/hospice nurse and trust me, we can help what the MDs can't.

James Huffman · Sep 10, 2002

Originally posted by caroladybelle
Neon,

There were nurses before MDs and there will be nurses after MDs are gone. Nursing occurs even in absence of physicians. Nursing has potential to be so much more important than medicine. We just haven't been utilized that well and too many of us have been convinced that we are nothing without MDs/suits/Adms.

I am an onco/hospice nurse and trust me, we can help what the MDs can't.

A word of thanks to all you hospice nurses out there. My Dad has late stage protate cancer (fairly stable at the moment, thankfully) and was in severe pain. His hospice nurse figured out a med combo that has relieved the pain immensely. I cannot thank them enough.

Have nurses been around before physicians? I'm not sure. I think what's important is to realize that we have separate -- though related -- areas of expertise. (Remember from your nursing theory classes? (Yes, the classes we all hated ;-). Medicine deals more with anatomy, we deal more with physiology). Of course we can do things physicians can't. We need to remember that more often, and remind each other of it.

Jim Huffman, RN

http://www.NetworkforNurses.com

Glad2behere · Sep 10, 2002

I thought that it was a GIVEN

shay · Sep 10, 2002

Are docs more valued than nurses? An unequivocal YES.

Are docs more TRUSTED than nurses? An unequivocal NO.

Very confusing, the general public. They don't value us, but they seem to trust us....... :confused:

Gomer · Sep 11, 2002

NurseRatchett, your comment about MD specialties is interesting. I agree that I see more female primary care docs, however, even in the wonderful world of MD's there is a pecking order. Primary care docs make less than orthopods...and most orthopods are men. Women, as a whole, are not valued as much as men by most societies...it doesn't matter what job they hold.

TEXASWAG, MSN, RN · Sep 12, 2002

Brown Rice,

Ditto with another post. Nurses are underpaid because it's predominantly women. Doctors are valued more due to the prestige and maleness of the profession.

TEXASWAG, MSN, RN · Sep 12, 2002

Fergus51,

Trust me most travel nurses do not make $35/hr. My first travel assignment was $21/hr. 40k as a new grad? I wish. Not in my former neck of the woods. Peace.