Anybody ever have an MD actively campaign to have you fired?

No Stars In My Eyes · Jul 30, 2011

I have nothing to offer advice-wise; but, gosh what an uncomfortable position to be in. I'll pray for a good outcome for you. Stand tall.

imintrouble, BSN, RN · Jul 30, 2011

I have nothing to offer advice-wise; but, gosh what an uncomfortable position to be in. I'll pray for a good outcome for you. Stand tall.

Thank you. Prayer is good.:)

xtxrn, ASN, RN · Jul 30, 2011

I began working at a hospital I'd worked at before, but with a different unit manager. One of the docs told her that she 'knew' that I'd been caught diverting drugs from the home health company I worked for.... Hmmmm.... 1) I never had an issue with drug diversion/abuse, :eek: and 2) I never worked for ANY home health. I had applied at one, and done a pre-emp drug screen, which was fine, and was offered the job (a couple of years earlier) but turned it down when the place I was at offered me a different position that was physically less demanding, as the health issues had started.

Fortunately, the nursing office group knew me well enough to come to me and ask what was going on. I was clueless, but offered up all the pee they wanted (had already done a pre-employment UDS that did have darvocet in it- but I had a rx, so that was cleared up with no problem- thought it was done and over with until Doc ****** started slandering me). The NM heard what I had to say, and said she'd talk to the people who had known me for years- and it all got resolved.

BUT, I was ticked off.... :mad: One evening, when this doc was charting in the chart area for docs, I stopped and asked her (nobody else around, and I was calm and very "oh, I just wanted to clear up something I'm concerned about, that you heard I'd been diverting, yadda, yadda, yadda...)... She backpedaled REALLY quickly- wasn't her, no- never heard anything like that, etc. All I wanted was to let her know I'd heard her attempted character assassination, and wasn't playing. And she was the only doc mentioned in the 'complaint'...she didn't want me working there, which I never understood. She had been a doc that came to the nh I worked at, and I'd always gotten along well with her.....go figure. :confused:

Had I not been working someplace I'd worked before, and for people who knew me, it could have been a major nightmare- as it was, it just hurt really badly. :crying2:

imintrouble, BSN, RN · Jul 30, 2011

I began working at a hospital I'd worked at before, but with a different unit manager. One of the docs told her that she 'knew' that I'd been caught diverting drugs from the home health company I worked for.... Hmmmm.... 1) I never had an issue with drug diversion/abuse, and 2) I never worked for ANY home health. I had applied at one, and done a pre-emp drug screen, which was fine, and was offered the job (a couple of years earlier) but turned it down when the place I was at offered me a different position that was physically less demanding, as the health issues had started.
Fortunately, the nursing office group knew me well enough to come to me and ask what was going on. I was clueless, but offered up all the pee they wanted (had already done a pre-employment UDS that did have darvocet in it- but I had a rx, so that was cleared up with no problem- thought it was done and over with until Doc ***** started slandering me). The NM heard what I had to say, and said she'd talk to the people who had known me for years- and it all got resolved.
BUT, I was ticked off.... One evening, when this doc was charting in the chart area for docs, I stopped and asked her (nobody else around, and I was calm and very "oh, I just wanted to clear up something I'm concerned about, that you heard I'd been diverting, yadda, yadda, yadda...)... She backpedaled REALLY quickly- wasn't her, no- never heard anything like that, etc. All I wanted was to let her know I'd heard her attempted character assassination, and wasn't playing. And she was the only doc mentioned in the 'complaint'...she didn't want me working there, which I never understood. She had been a doc that came to the nh I worked at, and I'd always gotten along well with her.....go figure.
Had I not been working someplace I'd worked before, and for people who knew me, it could have been a major nightmare- as it was, it just hurt really badly.

It does hurt doesn't it? I hadn't really thought of it in that way, but you're right. You didn't deserve the attack, and I don't deserve it either. I'm sorry you endured that hurt, but glad it worked out for you. I hope mine works out as well. Thanks

xtxrn, ASN, RN · Jul 30, 2011

I hope it all works out for you, too.... ever wonder if the docs think that they'd be dragging their patients home with them if we hadn't shown up for work??? :)

joanna73, BSN, RN · Jul 30, 2011

There is one Dr who I'm pretty sure hates me. He's miserable to all the nurses though, because most of us have to force him to do his job on a regular basis. Do I care that he despises me? No. I work for my residents.

brandy1017, ASN, RN · Jul 30, 2011

My title is pretty descriptive. There is one doctor who hates me. Over the past several months there have been some unpleasant exchanges. I try to avoid caring for his pts, but sometimes I can't. I've known for over a year that he went to the CNE, and CEO of the hospital to get me canned. Sometimes I worry alot about it, sometimes not so much. I can't be real descriptive about the exchanges because I like the anonymity of this site. The MD feels I challenge his orders when I only try to clarify.
How do you handle it? Should I look for another job? I've got 10 years invested in the hospital where I work. No union here.

If you've been there over 10 years and this problem with the doctor just started shouldn't your good reputation protect you. I'm guessing this is the type of doctor where nurses are to be seen, not heard. Once I had a doctor complain about me for advocating for my patients, but nothing ever came of it. Seems ridiculous, if you ask me.

In fact, we are there to advocate for the patients. You've done nothing wrong. I wouldn't quit my job over a doctor! They usually come and go anyway. By us doctors are either independent or if they work for the hospitals they change hospital systems looking for better pay and benefits like most of us. Why walk away from over 10 years pay & benefits. Why give him that much power.

It is very rare for a dr to take offense, especially personally because you question an order. In my experience, they usually are happy to explain why if it is reasonable. Of course there are always one or two doctors that don't want nurses to question them or God forbid make a suggestion or recommendation and will then order the opposite, but you know who they are and have to approach them differently or work around them if need be. Call their consult for the order you need for instance and bypass them.

Probably this doctor is known as a hothead, complainer to management and complains about different nurses regularly so they take his comments with a grain of salt.

Many nurses have problems with certain doctors they don't like and don't want to take care of their patients just to avoid them. Usually its over a personal matter with a family member. I'm glad I don't work with the doctor that took care of my loved one, he was so unbelievable refusing her the care she needed. He even yelled at her daughter for taking her to the hospital and she had only been there twice since she was diagnosed with cancer 3 years before. Unbelievable! He didn't want to treat her, he wanted her to either go home and die with hospice or go to the nursing home he was the director of. In fact, he pushed her into the nursing home after only being in the hospital for a short time when I felt she needed more care. She needed blood, he refused to give it, even though her Hgb 8 and she had cellulitis and he stopped her antibiotics as soon as she was at the nursing home, even though her leg was still fiery red, swollen, hot and painful. I told them to fight with the medicare appeal but they wouldn't. He even said he wanted her in the nursing home because he just KNEW if she went home she'd be back in the hospital.

Oh yeah, of course because she wasn't getting the medical treatment she needed. In the end she died within 2 weeks of this altercation. Even though I got her pulled out of the NH, back home with home care. He finally relented after several days and put her back on antibiotics but the damage had been done. The home care nurses couldn't believe that he was pressuring them not to go to the hospital and he got angry when they advocated for epogen to build up her blood as he had refused to give her a transfusion. She was very anemic, weak and short of breath and blood would have helped her, it was a comfort issue. Of course he refused the epogen! She did end up back in the hospital and died shortly thereafter, but his neglect and mistreatment caused her to die quicker and more painfully than if he'd done his job.

I'm so glad he works at another hospital system because there is absolutely no way I could work for him. I would refuse to speak to him. He was like a kevorkian doctor and refusing to treat his patient. I have never seen a doctor do this before, normally the doctors treat their patients and follow their wishes, unless they ask for hospice which is still their choice. He was basically trying to force her to be hospice against her wishes. It makes me sick, but his blood is on her hands and that because of him she had to die scared and in pain.

He pushed her into hospice even though she begged him to stay in the hospital. She was taken by an ambulance to a fancy hospice and they overdosed her on many meds and she died within hours. She was so scared and wanted to stay in the hospital but he refused her dying wish. I told them to fight with the medicare appeal, but they were afraid, and I wasn't legal POA to stop this or believe me I would have!

I honestly believe he felt it was time for her to die and he didn't want to deal with us demanding the medicare care she deserved and needed. It was his way of getting rid of us, getting the last word and making sure she died on his timetable, not God's. Once your in hospice, you can't go back to the hospital. You've basically given all your rights away! Hospice didn't even want to give her a breathing treatment to help her breathe and she was panicking out of fear and hadn't had a treatment in many hours. Finally they gave her a treatment, but pumped her full of so much meds that she died in hours in a coma, unable to speak or look at us. It was torture to watch her die, know she was scared and not be able to comfort her. I've never felt more helpless in my life!

I've taken care of hospice patients in my hospital and that is not the way we do things. We give them a slow steady amount of morphine for comfort and eventually nature takes its course, but we don't overdose them. I've never seen anything like this!

I know many nurses advocate for what good working conditions hospice is, but then you are seeing people be euthanized. That is a slippery slope from comfort and letting nature takes its course to overdosing them to die quickly. I don't want any part of that. I don't want their blood on my hands. God is the one who decides who lives and dies!

SoCalCrafter · Jul 30, 2011

If you've been there over 10 years and this problem with the doctor just started shouldn't your good reputation protect you. I'm guessing this is the type of doctor where nurses are to be seen, not heard. Once I had a doctor complain about me for advocating for my patients, but nothing ever came of it. Seems ridiculous, if you ask me.
In fact, we are there to advocate for the patients. You've done nothing wrong. I wouldn't quit my job over a doctor! They usually come and go anyway. By us doctors are either independent or if they work for the hospitals they change hospital systems looking for better pay and benefits like most of us. Why walk away from over 10 years pay & benefits. Why give him that much power.
It is very rare for a dr to take offense, especially personally because you question an order. In my experience, they usually are happy to explain why if it is reasonable. Of course there are always one or two doctors that don't want nurses to question them or God forbid make a suggestion or recommendation and will then order the opposite, but you know who they are and have to approach them differently or work around them if need be. Call their consult for the order you need for instance and bypass them.
Probably this doctor is known as a hothead, complainer to management and complains about different nurses regularly so they take his comments with a grain of salt.
Many nurses have problems with certain doctors they don't like and don't want to take care of their patients just to avoid them. Usually its over a personal matter with a family member. I'm glad I don't work with the doctor that took care of my loved one, he was so unbelievable refusing her the care she needed. He even yelled at her daughter for taking her to the hospital and she had only been there twice since she was diagnosed with cancer 3 years before. Unbelievable! He didn't want to treat her, he wanted her to either go home and die with hospice or go to the nursing home he was the director of. In fact, he pushed her into the nursing home after only being in the hospital for a short time when I felt she needed more care. She needed blood, he refused to give it, even though her Hgb 8 and she had cellulitis and he stopped her antibiotics as soon as she was at the nursing home, even though her leg was still fiery red, swollen, hot and painful. I told them to fight with the medicare appeal but they wouldn't. He even said he wanted her in the nursing home because he just KNEW if she went home she'd be back in the hospital.
Oh yeah, of course because she wasn't getting the medical treatment she needed. In the end she died within 2 weeks of this altercation. Even though I got her pulled out of the NH, back home with home care. He finally relented after several days and put her back on antibiotics but the damage had been done. The home care nurses couldn't believe that he was pressuring them not to go to the hospital and he got angry when they advocated for epogen to build up her blood as he had refused to give her a transfusion. She was very anemic, weak and short of breath and blood would have helped her, it was a comfort issue. Of course he refused the epogen! She did end up back in the hospital and died shortly thereafter, but his neglect and mistreatment caused her to die quicker and more painfully than if he'd done his job.
I'm so glad he works at another hospital system because there is absolutely no way I could work for him. I would refuse to speak to him. He was like a kevorkian doctor and refusing to treat his patient. I have never seen a doctor do this before, normally the doctors treat their patients and follow their wishes, unless they ask for hospice which is still their choice. He was basically trying to force her to be hospice against her wishes. It makes me sick, but his blood is on her hands and that because of him she had to die scared and in pain.
He pushed her into hospice even though she begged him to stay in the hospital. She was taken by an ambulance to a fancy hospice and they overdosed her on many meds and she died within hours. She was so scared and wanted to stay in the hospital but he refused her dying wish. I told them to fight with the medicare appeal, but they were afraid, and I wasn't legal POA to stop this or believe me I would have!
I honestly believe he felt it was time for her to die and he didn't want to deal with us demanding the medicare care she deserved and needed. It was his way of getting rid of us, getting the last word and making sure she died on his timetable, not God's. Once your in hospice, you can't go back to the hospital. You've basically given all your rights away! Hospice didn't even want to give her a breathing treatment to help her breathe and she was panicking out of fear and hadn't had a treatment in many hours. Finally they gave her a treatment, but pumped her full of so much meds that she died in hours in a coma, unable to speak or look at us. It was torture to watch her die, know she was scared and not be able to comfort her. I've never felt more helpless in my life!
I've taken care of hospice patients in my hospital and that is not the way we do things. We give them a slow steady amount of morphine for comfort and eventually nature takes its course, but we don't overdose them. I've never seen anything like this!
I know many nurses advocate for what good working conditions hospice is, but then you are seeing people be euthanized. That is a slippery slope from comfort and letting nature takes its course to overdosing them to die quickly. I don't want any part of that. I don't want their blood on my hands. God is the one who decides who lives and dies!

First of all, I'm so sorry you lost your loved one this way. This shouldn't have happened! Doctors like this need to be turned in!

But I do have a question... Were you in a position where you could have switched doctors and/or hospitals?

MagsMom · Jul 30, 2011

I have not had this problem but my friend who is a sonographer just had it happen to her. She worked at hospital for 10+ years and recently they got a new manager for the department. There were two sonographers who did not like her and they really campaigned the doctor who was not a big fan either. Within a short time of the new manager being hired she got called in and was fired. So even if you have a good reputation I would be careful not irritate the doctor because, in my experience, their opinion carries much more weight than yours. Sad but true.

brandy1017, ASN, RN · Jul 30, 2011

No I wish that was the case. My loved one didn't understand what her dr was doing and also was very afraid of losing her dr and afraid no one would take her over. It is true it is not easy getting a dr to take over in a situation like this, but I did encourage her to go to my dr, who has a heart of gold. This would never have happened if he had been her dr, but she didn't want to change at this late point in her life. She had her dr when she was much younger and then he left for geriatrics training (unfortunately he seems to have become cynical and kevorkian in his ways). Years later she found her way back to him and he seemed very nice at first, but later problems arose. His LPN would triage the calls and act like a gatekeeper, keeping us from making an appointment, from talking to him or having him call back and even refusing to get a script, telling her to try a home remedy first. I was shocked! I've never experienced this with my own doctor. I can always get a timely appointment and if I ask to talk to him, he calls back. If a ask for a script, he gets it.

When I told my dr what happened after she died, he was upset. It was wrong, but he knew some doctors were like that. I just have never experienced this in all my years of hospital nursing! She was very fearful of not having a dr, remembered her dr from the old days and trusted him, but she didn't have a medical background. If I mentioned another dr she got scared and upset.

I had to take her to the ER on those times we were unable to see or talk with the dr and that was very difficult because she was not one to go to the hospital. She was very stubborn that way.

In fact the week before she died, that same LPN had the nerve to call and yell at her daughter for all the trouble she was causing asking for medicine to help. Told her they have too many patients and don't have the time to get a special med for her. Can you even believe this! Then daughter said my mom is dying don't you even care. At which LPN started crying. Loved one was upset, not knowing what was going on over the phone, but thinking we were plotting to get rid of her dr and then she would have no one. Very sad situation. All we were doing was trying to get the medicine and treatment to make her as comfortable as possible in the time she had left.

In the past this same LPN had the nerve to come up to her in church and ask her why she was bothering the dr to keep her car license and told her she shouldn't be driving anyway. After she died, the LPN ran into my loved one's daughter at another funeral and complained about how overworked the two of them were and how they had dying patients, but the families wanted to keep them alive. Can you believe this! Who is so rude and unprofessional to say and do these things like that. At at someone's funeral!

I was very alarmed when the LPN was gate-keeping in the beginning and I wanted to report her to the state board, because I know it was not personal. Most likely this is what she did with all the patients and I felt this was totally unsafe and she was acting like a dr without a medical license blocking patients care.

I only wish this said LPN would read this post and realize the damage she has done and the danger she is putting these patients in when she tries to play dr gatekeeper and doesn't have the knowledge or license to make these dangerous decisions.

I'm not mentioning names for confidentiality. Also I'm not criticizing LPN's, just this particular one who needs to retire already! She is unprofessional, rude, uncaring and downright dangerous and the dr thinks she can do no wrong. He likewise had no qualms forcing my loved one into hospice when she even begged to let her stay and die in the hospital. He told her I can't do that. That is such a lie! Frankly I think the two of them should rot in hell, but I will let God judge them. He has her blood on his hands!

joanna73, BSN, RN · Jul 30, 2011

Mags Mom, I would agree that we all need to be civil and respectful. However, in this day and age, Drs and nurses are equals. If he or she is going to have a problem with me for requesting orders, and that they see their patients, so be it. I don't give a rat's behind. My opinion also carries some weight, and Drs can be reported. Drs have responsibilities to live up to, and they know it.