Another question about nursing salaries - page 4
Why do nurses think that nursing salaries are so terrible? Around my metropolitian area, new nurses can start at 25-27 dollars an hour. That is at least $50,000 per year. Conversely, many of my... Read More
Jan 6, '03Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '99; Posts: 2,950; Likes: 619Originally posted by EmeraldNYL
NP's don't make that much more than BSN's, but what about CRNA's or nurses who go into administration/management? And what's the solution to all of this anyway? Why are the administrative types STILL not listening when it is obvious that the "shortage" is turning into a crisis? Obviously something will have to change or we will have no nurses left! This is so frusturating.... :uhoh21:
Jan 6, '03Occupation: Nursing Professional Development + Academic Faculty Specialty: 38 year(s) of experience in Nursing Professional Development ; Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 13,464; Likes: 25,092Originally posted by TYGGER
I must say most of those, I have dealt with, in the management positions with advanced degrees do a very poor job and have forgotten being at the bedside.
If you feel you could do a better job of running the place than the leaders at your current hospital, why don't you give a leadership position a try? It sounds like they could certainly benefit from your help. ....... or are you one of those people who just criticizes from the sidelines even though you have never tried to do the job yourself, have no experience with a leadership position yourself, and don't really know what it's like to "walk a mile in their shoes."
Just as it is not fair for someone in a leadership position to be overly critical of staff if they have never been in a staff position themselves, it is equally not fair to be overly critical of people in management positions if you have never tried to manage a unit.
Jan 6, '03Joined: Jan '01; Posts: 3,354; Likes: 62When I was a staff nurse, a number of my colleagues b*tched about how our managers--who had also come up through the ranks--had "forgotten what it was like" and "were a little too comfortable" in their cushy executive positions. I was pretty neutral on that point, and years later, when I went into an executive position myself, I saw that my instincts were right.
Most staff nurses have no idea what I do on a day-to-day basis. They have no idea that every time they have an urgent situation or question, odds are they're in line behind 19 others who have equally urgent matters or questions. They don't understand that they can't have everything they ask for because of budgetary issues or legal issues. They don't understand that I can make some decisions on my own, but some have to be run past a couple of VP's first. They don't understand that sometimes I didn't get back to them promptly because I was pulled into an all-day crisis management meeting with every damned VP, Director and Manager in the company.
And--to drag this back to the topic under discussion--they don't understand that, the corporate world being what it is, I am probably paid less than someone in an equal position in a more high-profile or revenue generating department, particularly if that other person is male. And the more I go back and try to prove that I can still roll up my sleeves and get my hands dirty at the bedside, the more I am perceived as a glorified staff nurse insead of an executive, the less clout I have with senior management to request and get the things I need for the staff nurses, and the poorer an advocate I become for them. And then I really WOULD be useless as a manager.
Jan 6, '03Occupation: Registered Nurse Joined: Mar '00; Posts: 101; Likes: 53Your wage as a professional nurse will also vary greatly with location. After 18 years of nursing I am now making 24.00 per hour.
I've also found that if you leave the hospital for clinic work, school nursing, some insurance jobs, etc. you have to take a substantial pay and sometimes benefit cut. Most of these jobs demand a nurse with recent acute hospital experience and other skills but want you to take a 10, 000 per year cut in salary because you won't be working holidays/weekends or may just be on call.
Yes, I am now making a comfortable living - however, my brothers both graduated with 4 year degrees in male dominated fields and make 2 - 3 times my annual income.
I realize that wage/benefits are the greatest expense most health care industries face BUT should a CEO make 6 - 100 times the wage of the workers?
It is also interesting that many health care providers offer health benefits that are worse than average.
I think teachers have done a good job with finally getting their salary issues in the public eye....we need to do the same.
Jan 6, '03Occupation: ER RN Joined: Aug '01; Posts: 20; Likes: 1I have worked with a great number of educators also who work as RN's on a casual basis and a full time as instructors, to make sure they are current. I understand that advance degree RN's can't keep up on everything but the few administrators I work with like to throw in our faces. I would love to get my BSN, MSN and be a ADN or BSN Prof. I just can't afford the pay cut.
A fiend of mine was working a 48/72 weekend position while goind to school, she is a RNP and was going to take a substantial pay decrease going into teaching at the local university, and she would have been great in that setting.
Back to thread; I have for the past 5 or 6 years made more (with OT) than my managers. I now make more than my manager who does put in at least 50 hours a week sometimes putting in 18hr days (8am to 4-5am then back for a 9 am meeting) with no OT. She is the manage of 3 units; ICU, ER and Cardioresp services, each of which was woefully mismanged prior to her arrival and thru no fault of her own continues to be but not on as grand a scale as previously.
Jan 6, '03Joined: May '01; Posts: 365; Likes: 1My dh brought up this...I have no idea why. That women a more intelligent then men. (though it maybe true...he he he) His rational was because women are more likely to obtain a degree. I don't know where he got that...or if it's an actual fact.
I thought yes...come to think of that...in our group of friends he's absoluetly right. All my male friends have very little education. (none have an actual degree) They all make as much money as me. (or more)
Most of my g.f.'s have degrees and make significantly or slightly less our male friends.
Also my Uncle a Farmer from Canada couldn't believe nurses would be upset about how much we make. He asked me my salary. I wasn't afraid to tell him. My dh said for what she does in a day....and the responsibility a nurse makes....you'd think she'd make more. Then my dh discussed what he does in comparison and that he holds only a trademan card and makes $2 an hour more per hour.
Jan 6, '03Occupation: ED staff nurse From: US ; Joined: Nov '01; Posts: 1,150; Likes: 232I've been a nurse for nearly 16 years and I don't make what the newbies are starting out at in Philly...now that really sucks!
Jan 6, '03Occupation: ER RN Joined: Aug '01; Posts: 20; Likes: 1At one point in time, with 5 yrs experience I was making 5% more than new grads....without my ICU diferential.
Are there any Er Rn's getting a differential like the ICU RN's get?
Jan 7, '03Occupation: Nurse Practitioner Specialty: 20 year(s) of experience in Pain Mgmt, ICU nursing, L/D Nursing ; From: NC ; Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 478; Likes: 9Is money the root of all evil????? NOT! We have all worked hard, studied long hours, stressed over tests, lost out on a lot of "family time" and as registered nurses are expected to save lives, play miss neutral with family members, be social workers, patient advocates, nuture like a mother, be teachers, remain students forever (gotta keep up with technology, new drugs, new procedures, etc...) work holidays, weekends, long hours, extra shifts, on and on and on..any experienced nurse will get my drift! We are not just "a nurse" we perform multiple different types of jobs, but get paid SH*T for it. My starting salary was $14.76, no sign on bonus either! I work in a large university hospital with only small rural hospitals close by. The next comparable hospital is almost 3hrs away. Instead of paying their loyal, experienced nurses more money, they bring in more travelers, more foreign nurses (pay them moving expenses, housing allotments, etc!!!), and give a lofty $5,000.00 sign on bonus to new grads who start out at almost what I make now after 5yrs and climbing a clinical ladder 1x so far.
I would have to agree with almost every post here.....optimism is wonderful, but until you walk in our shoes you will never understand. Yes, your starting salary sounds great, in fact it's more than I make now even with night shift/weekend diff, but just wait until 2yrs from now and the new grads are making more than you and getting fat bonuses too. There is only a nursing shortage b/c people are seeing that although a personally satisfying career (mostly) it isn't worth it to live on financially when they can do something much, much easier.
Nurses aren't anything special right? We only save frickin' lives everyday!!! No thanks to the stupid interns!!! Oh yea lets give that tylenol IV!!!!
I do not mean to sound as if I am flaming you, but nurses getting paid what we are worth is a touchy, sore subject for probably all of us.
The fact of geographical area determining pay has absolutely nothing to do with it; it is the prinicipal that even you will see after you get working that you aren't getting paid what you are WORTH!!!!!!
Jan 7, '03Occupation: cardiac nurse Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 139; Likes: 11Our hospital ropes in new grads with $18.00/hr. But what are experienced nurses making? I mean nurses with 30+ years of experience. $3.00/hr more. Kind of insulting if you ask me. Our hospital does the usual tired method of recruitment, recruitment but forget retention.
Jan 7, '03Occupation: Nursing Professional Development + Academic Faculty Specialty: 38 year(s) of experience in Nursing Professional Development ; Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 13,464; Likes: 25,092My hospital has retention bonuses that are paid every 2 years on your anniversary date. They increase with each payout. After the first year, it is only $500.00, but by the time an RN reaches 25 years, it is $10,000.00 and becomes a yearly bonus.
Yes, some hospitals are looking at retention. My nursing leadership team colleagues and I are very proud of our decision to reward longevity -- and to discourage people from job hopping to receive all those recruitment bonuses. We only wish we were eligible to receive the bonus we instituted!
Jan 7, '03Occupation: SRNA Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 1,191; Likes: 28llg, sounds like you work for a great hospital! If hospitals don't start worrying about retention, there will be no one left to teach us new grads! Hopefully hospitals are starting to slowly realize that huge sign on bonuses don't really work, because nurses leave as soon as their committment is up.
Jan 7, '03Occupation: Nursing Professional Development + Academic Faculty Specialty: 38 year(s) of experience in Nursing Professional Development ; Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 13,464; Likes: 25,092Originally posted by Stargazer
Most staff nurses have no idea what I do on a day-to-day basis.
And the more I go back and try to prove that I can still roll up my sleeves and get my hands dirty at the bedside, the more I am perceived as a glorified staff nurse insead of an executive, the less clout I have with senior management to request and get the things I need for the staff nurses, and the poorer an advocate I become for them. And then I really WOULD be useless as a manager.
Keep up the good work,