ADN to BSN at Universities; problems?

[Andy S.]

Well, this is my first post so I hope I am doing this right.

I graduated 2years ago from my ADN program.( I still feel I that I was well prepared with a good education) I worked for a year and then last year started an RN to BSN program. I don't know what I was expecting from my program, but I have had to deal with alot of flack for already being an RN. It is almost as though they take it as an insult, instead of working with us and building on our education. They talk to us as though we are not real nurses, that we have a "partial" education. Don't get me wrong I am going to school to learn, but the environment has been a hostile one.

I am not as angry and frustrated anymore, I have had my "venting" time. :) (this is my last semester too!!! yeah!)

And things have gotten better since we talked to the dean. I guess I am just curious if I picked the wrong school or if this happens in other in other places.

Thanks!

Andy

[NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN]

In the good ole days of 1979 (begining to be ancient), I was an LPN entering into 2nd semester Soph year nursing program at age 24. Several students were diploma RNs (3)persons and 2 ADN grads. We attended all the same classes + clinical till Senior year when RN's were encouraged to do clinical in area of own interest to broaden themselves. We DIDN'T have any problems with the regular traditional students. The RN's clinical was always gearded to EXPANDING on what they knew....sickest patient or something different out of usually area of practice. They all clepped one or two courses usually nutrition! Because our courses were intergrated not distinct like OB/Ped, MEd/Surg etc and based on "Betty Neuman Nursing Theory" we all suffered together.

Thru this program I developed a SOLID grasp of Nursing Process:assessment, care planning, intervention and evaluation which I can apply to ANY situation I'm in. Our study groups also helped to bring us together and made us open to new ideas.

In my initial work setting, thw staff/administraion encouraaged strongly continuing education...probably helped by affiliation with schools of nursing and teaching environment. All programs are not the same as I learned from observing differing school's students. i know i'm lucky for having had great early experiences.

[Andy S., BSN, RN]

Thanks for all the input! I am sorry I didn't mean for this to spark an ADN vs. BSN debate or nursing theory debates. "Can't we all just get along?". (I am very sarcastic, sorry couldn't resist)

I do plan on getting my Masters, and NP (after I take some time off from school). I chose to get my BSN first instead of applying for ADN to MSN programs strictly to get more experience. Maybe it is just not the experience I had planned on.

I have had some wonderful instructors since I have been going back to school, but there have been those who have tried my patience to the brink of insanity as well. I just wondered if this was a standard experience for ADN's.

Andy

[tobias fonge]

Don't let the hostilities deter you from your dreams. I am an lpn who is currently in an ADN program and we are getting lots of support from the staff. You might have chosen the wrong school, but whatever the case, hang in there. Your pain and suffering now will translate to joy and laughter when you finish. Let their attitude only foster your endurance to see this to the end.

[MollyJ]

Well, I am speechless, which doesn't happen very often.

Oramar, what I am trying to say is that the BSN made _me_ a better nurse. I am not trying to say that it made me a better nurse than nurse A, B or C. It made me a better nurse in comparison to myself.

And I was expounding on my OWN pet theory, that is my anecdotal interpretation of my own BSN progression experience. Believe me, my pet theory never saw the light of day, much less the pages of a peer reviewed journal but my post was in response to the strong degree of anger and hurt that I perceived in many of us who complete the BSN completion process AND those who didn't, like yourself. At times, the pain and the hurt was palpable in my classes and between-class discussions and I admired my prof for letting us talk about it and then move on. But, in fact, the hurt and the anger seems to be a frequent, if not universal experience for BSN completers. I think it is grieving.

I think most of us experience our generic nursing education as a cardinal experience in our lives. Good programs are rigorous and we know that we survived when others didn't. We feel good about our preparation and our body of knowledge, but when we are ready to move on to new nursing experiences, we keep hitting the ceiling--the one that says "BSN required".

BTW, some responders seemed to indicate that the only motive for wanting a BSN or a MSN is that you couldn't "hack" bedside nursing. Well, I had been a staff nurse for 12 years in the hospital at the completion of my BSN. I guess if I wasn't hacking it, it was news to the people's whose lives I saved and the colleagues that indicated that they found me not only agreeable but preferable to work with. I don't think it is abnormal, at some point, to want the option to move on to new challenges. My most admired clinical nurse that I ever worked with continues, with MSN in hand, working at the bedside, clinically astute and a great teacher to the people she works with and orients. I guess she didn't get the news either that a MSN means you can't "do" so you teach.

I respect each and every nurse for what they do. What nurses do is not easy. I feel strongly that three levels of entry is ultimately divisive to the profession and discussions like this thread illustrate that vividly. My diploma program taught me well. It did not survive. Young nurses training today should seriously consider obtaining their education in a way that they don't have to take this painful detour. That said, I realize many students will choose other preps for logical and well thought out reasons. Ultimately, my anger is at the profession for creating this divisive dilemma and allowing it to continue.

The best of will to all.

[MollyJ]

Suzannasue,

I think most of us have a real love-hate relationship with theory. I know I do. I have thought of it as an exersize in self-importance (on the part of the theorist, particularly).

Good theory should describe relationships between concepts that are, somehow, testable. The mere massiveness of nursing makes this a gargantuan task and so some theory is so over-arching that it seems esoteric. (I won't name names.) But theory does describe and label phenomena we've seen and tries to make statements about how the phenomena interact. When I was reading Dorothea Orem (which was the foundation of my thoughts about exercises in self-importance), I kept saying, "This lady is just stating the obvious!!!" But she also made attempts to talk about how the process happens and how it bogs down. Orem is responsible for my changed perspective that nursing is something we do _with_ clients not _to_ them.

In drug abuse prevention, I use Prochaska and DiClemente's Stages of change of health behaviors. Their "statements of the obvious" really, truly guide how I approach my kids. You may THINK that you can "make" a diabetic be compliant by giving them information about good diabetic management and become very frustrated when they don't change, even though you've given them this great body of knowledge. They may even feel bad that they disappoint you, but not much changes. Prochaska, Diclemente and another two researchers, Rollnick and Miller, offer pragmatic, research based tools for discerning where the client is in his change effort and how best to move them along OR simply respect that they are not yet ready to move along.

My work in prevention with students is not doing research. I don't wear suits and get paid big bucks (in fact, I'd bet a 100 bucks I make less than you do.) It is not fancy work. In fact, I feel very strongly that I've just changed trenches, but that I am still in the trenches. I like it in the trenches. It is where real care happens.

If we keep talking to each other and listening to each other, we are sure to learn more about the whole issue, even if we agree to disagree.

[nightingale, RN]

Molly, your posts are outstanding! I am so happy to have found this BB. I feel so stuck out in the wilderness and I rejoice at the opportunity to converse with nurses of your caliber.

United we stand and grow and prosper!

[oramar]

That was why I tried to work on a BSN. The first negative vibes I ever recieved about my education came down on me from an advisor at the university level. I was taken back by this and assumed she was mad woman. Later on I started to hear similar stuff from other educators and realized at that point it was not limited to one person. I was like a beloved minority child who feels good about herself and assumes everyone in the world feels good about her. The first time she meets discrimination she attributes it to one bad person. After hearing it again and again she starts wonder what is going on here. I did not internalize it, however I do recognize something is going on in the world that makes me mad. Here is my half baked therory. This stuff started at the university level and for a long time bedside nurses did not ever hear it. Matter of fact I never experieced a second class citizen attituted myself in the work enviroment but some here say they have. The overwhelming feeling at the bedside is a desperation for every set of hands they can get. All other attitudes are farts in a hurricane.