"Men should be EMT's or Doctors!"

azhiker96, BSN, RN · Nov 2, 2006

Well done TriageRN_34! You definitely raised the bar in holistic proactive patient care. That patient's refusals were not in her best interest. Simply changing nurses helped in the short term but planting the seed that males could be effective caregivers can help her after she's discharged from your facility. Sure, she may still cling to her beliefs and act based on them. To me, that's just natural selection at work. However you gave her the chance to learn and to continue to grow in her 9th decade.

I am amazed at the prejudices that have been expressed about the elderly, that they are set in their ways and disagreeable. I've met people of all ages that fit that description and the few folks I've known for 40 years or more have had the same demeanor the whole time. I don't believe that people get bullheaded in their old age. Most of them start off and live that way their whole life.

Antikigirl, ASN, RN · Nov 2, 2006

AKhiker..thank you so very much! It was a challenge not to tell her how things go and how she should be..I had 6 other patients. but I was darned if I was going to let this patient down...she deserved a bit of understanding and thought about her own actions to help her as she progresses towards changes with her body and..well...inevitable placement into a facility!

I guess I am lucky that I have seen what happens in facilities for elderly...see the probelms that have to be overcome when someone has to go there..typically against their will. I sympathize, yet am proactive in gaining the tools for the right coping mechs to handle it. I don't believe someone should be taken at face value and dissed..but looking into the problem and helping them to fix it in their own way. God help me because that is the way I feel and hope to GOD someone accepts that of me when it is my turn! Oh I will be soooooooo bad when I get there..I know it! LOL!

That or society will be all Solient Green when I get old..LOL!!!!!!! Then I don't have to worry! LOL!!!!!!!!!!

tvccrn, ASN, RN · Nov 3, 2006

I was also raised with this saying, however I disagree with it.
If you want to get respect, you have to be respectful.

That would be considered earning it.

tvccrn

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Nov 3, 2006

I look at things a little differently
At 90 years old, she should be allowed to feel what ever way she wants to feel. By God she has earned that right.She has served her time, paid her dues,and who knows what factors she faced while achieving her 90 years.
This world is big enough for all types, even me

There is a difference, Tom.

It is one thing for a female to reject a male caregiver, because of modesty or emotional discomfort with his gender rendering personal care. That is clearly not a sexist act.

It is quite another to reject him, by saying that he needs to grow some testes and be an MD/EMT (as though he is not a "real" man, or that "real" men cannot be nurses) ...that is a form of highly inflammatory sexist bias. And then to tell him never to enter the door, because of this.

And being 90 years old, is not an adequate excuse for being a sexist witch, just as it isn't for being racist. If anything else, she should have learned better by now.

cota2k · Nov 3, 2006

Kudos to you and your male associate. OK, she's 90. It takes toughness, and a little attitude to get there. Wimps don't make to 90. She seen her changes, and lived up to her challenges. I'll give her that. If she wants a female nurse to provide her care, I'm OK with that. But don't go tellin' the male nurse to get some testies! The temptation to grow 'em, and tell her to wash her own *** must have been incredible. I'm sure the face she put on during her care came from a doting family. If you're refusing all interventions, why isn't she home with family providing care? Probably a PIA to them also. I'm getting started... deep breath! I really do Love most of the little old ladies. Their stories, and charm are priceless, but one bad apple... Again. Kudos to you and your staff! Sounds like you guys are able to pull together and work as a team. Which whenever a discussion of males and females working together as nurses comes up, the teamwork is really what it comes down to. Eric.

nursemike, ASN, RN · Nov 3, 2006

AKhiker..thank you so very much! It was a challenge not to tell her how things go and how she should be..I had 6 other patients. but I was darned if I was going to let this patient down...she deserved a bit of understanding and thought about her own actions to help her as she progresses towards changes with her body and..well...inevitable placement into a facility!
I guess I am lucky that I have seen what happens in facilities for elderly...see the probelms that have to be overcome when someone has to go there..typically against their will. I sympathize, yet am proactive in gaining the tools for the right coping mechs to handle it. I don't believe someone should be taken at face value and dissed..but looking into the problem and helping them to fix it in their own way. God help me because that is the way I feel and hope to GOD someone accepts that of me when it is my turn! Oh I will be soooooooo bad when I get there..I know it! LOL!
That or society will be all Solient Green when I get old..LOL!!!!!!! Then I don't have to worry! LOL!!!!!!!!!!

I love your attitude, and I admire your creativity. My own father can be a ridiculously difficult patient (not bigoted, but frequently non-compliant) and I would certainly want him treated with as much respect and dignity as possible.

In terms of good cop/bad cop, I had a sweet lol with dementia (possibly Alzheimer's) one night who was being so noncompliant she had her family in tears. So, finally, on the way in for another round, I decided it was time for me to Be The Nurse. I went in, laid down the law, and told her just how things were going to be.

Turns out she was a retired, 30 year nurse, from a hospital with nuns. I left the room saying, "Yes ma'am. Thank you, ma'am. Whatever you say, ma'am."

I'd have to say I lost that battle, but I did call the doc and got an order for 0.5mg Ativan, IV push. Things went a lot more smoothly, after that.

Runner10k9 · Nov 7, 2006

Got to take issue with Teeituptom.

Turning 90 or 100 or whatever does not give one carte blanche to treat people like dirt. No one ever earns the right to "feel whatever way they want to feel." What if she starting making racist or other blatantly bigoted remarks? You going to stand around and just let her feel whatever way she wants?

No, TriageNurse_34 had the right perspective. Respond to bigotry when you see it -- use your judgement on how best to respond -- Try to gently explain it to the person to change his or her mind -- it may not work, but at least there's a chance you'll be successful. Whereas the approach Teeituptom endorses, simply guarantees the status quo and thus assures that attitudes will not change.

TriageNurse -- Three cheers.

Teeituptom -- Please reconsider.

medpasser · Nov 7, 2006

Interesting discussion. I will graduate in may and I will choose a specialty that limits this kind of difficulty if possible. I am already tired of the "not a man business". I'm hopeing that at higher acuity levels people will be too sick to be choosey. If some female doesn't want me to care for her that is her loss.

broke1 · Nov 7, 2006

Perhaps the change could start with those of us in the profession. Calling men in nursing "male nurses" is not much different than what the patient did. As far as filing the report of discrimination, would more people have agreed with the action if she had said she didn't want a "black nurse" or "white nurse"?

I agree that patients have rights as to who they will allow to care for them, but not the way she did it. I too, have been "fired" by patients because I'm a man.

Do you really believe it doesn't bother us?

Schoolnursetrish39 · Nov 7, 2006

YOu said it all in that last sentence. I have started a new position and there are a couple of residents that are prejudiced and some staff who are terrible and reading that gave me some prespective. We all have our bad days... the patients being patients I can stand but when co-workers are the problem thats the worst I think.. All of us hang in there. I really needed to read a post like Triage's. Thank you and yes male nurses are wonderful and I wish there were more of them...

omeconium · Nov 7, 2006

So our floor had this little old lady who was basically your general pain in the keester. Declined meds, treatments, tests...and was needy as all get go but no one could satisfy her. Very bold woman who likes things her way...and no other..family was the same and catered to her every whim...which didn't help us out at all! It was like she was on respite not being treated for a medical probelm!
We have this wonderful male nurse who is kind and very realistic when it comes to women having a probelm with male nurses during certain things (like bathing, cath, tolieting, etc.) and we always help him out in those cases. Well...I guess this woman read him the riot act saying that males should NEVER be nurses, they should get a set of testies and be a EMT or Doctor! Then she excused him from the room saying to never even step towards the door...this was just seconds after he introduced himself!!!!
I was furious!!!!! Here is this lady who actually is about 90 and was an editor for a major newspaper and she is being sexist??? Okay I think when she was trying for editor she had her share of sexism in her day!!! I was just so peved!
I took over care for her because she liked me quite a bit...and I had a little talk with her. I told her that I knew her son was an EMT, and my hubby is a paramedic. That I know that many EMT's and paramedics would like to switch to RN because of the pay, and actually getting to know a patient for more than 5-15 minutes in a screaming ambulance. Because of HIPAA they are not 'in the know' about their patients once they transfer care...so they stablize some of the worse things and never get to hear an outcome! So nursing can be quite nice because you can see what happens beyond the ER doors! I also reminded her and had her share stories of how it was like being a female editor....after that is sunk in to her what she had done, and she felt very sorry..but remained bull headed about not letting him in.
I think I did well...I knew this lady wouldn't respond to anything to put her defenses up, so I had to be patient and make her think of the reasons why she said what she did, and HERSELF come to the conclusion with a little proding from me that it was very insensitive and wrong.
I then talked to the nurse and we had a good laugh and he was fine, and then we both went to the charge nurse and wrote an incident report for verbal abuse and sexism towards the nurse. I felt that was right to do since you shouldn't ever treat a professional that only wants to help you (even if you are a pain in the keester big time) get well!
Basically I really made him see things in the right perspective by just saying "it really doesn't matter with her or some people what sex or color you are...they just want to make you miserable for some reason...just the lazy ones with no creativity choose sex or color because it is easier than actually getting to know a person! Plus hon...I think if she said anything positive or even smiled her head would cave in from the pressure! LOL!!!!".
Don't let the turkeys get ya down folks...[/quote
Great job! As a male OB Tech and 2nd semester student toward my BSN I really appreciate the support of my nurses!

tglasgow · Nov 7, 2006

I look at things a little differently
At 90 years old, she should be allowed to feel what ever way she wants to feel. By God she has earned that right.She has served her time, paid her dues,and who knows what factors she faced while achieving her 90 years.
This world is big enough for all types, even me
Let the Democrats regain control, please Lord

I have been a Paramedic for 12 years and am now in nursing school. I think that you might have a point. To the older generation, Paramedics and Doctors were a Male dominated profession and they think that they both are well compensated. I have been told by several of my patients (male and female) "Why do want to become a nurse? Isn't that a step down?" Little do they know. I don't believe anybody should be allowed to demean another for any reason out of mallace (age or otherwise); however, I believe that this might have been an instance where misinformation played a part.