Frustrated...

PG2018 · Apr 8, 2016

The equation that most nurses run through their head before going to graduate school equates to something of the following likeness. Unfortunately it does not add up at all like psychguy says, and if people did what he says they would be pounding dollars into their pockets. but since when do seasoned nurses take advice from those "dudes" over in the corner, right, lol.
Worst case scenario they see some add from one of those silly for profit degree printing press universities (WGU, WALDEN, ETC), with the words "chase your dream, higher purpose, advance your career, be a leader, shine like a star, get your picture on the work refrigerator of awesomesauce, etc." This gets those purple Disney butterflies rolling, glittery flying, and emotions souring of how they can be awesome contributors to this fantasy world. Coupling this with their dreams of living it up like people do on Grey's anatomy (I hate TV dramas, especially ones related to medical stuff) they get sucked in to the white coat syndrome phenomena (WCSP), which will probably be listed in the DSM-VI when it comes out.
Better but still awful-case scenario they run a somewhat mathematical equation through their head: [(white coat+masters)/(debt x time)]+ [(more makeup and purses) + (acting like all those doctors we think we know better than) + (more pay +better hours so we can take care of our kids)^2 - (actually having to think and use reason + omg learning a little bit of science how terrible)]/4
in layman terms, they want better hours, more money, to act like doctors, to wear a white coat, but don't want to have to think or use logic. Overall, the decision to pursue a masters wins and they go back to school, take on more debt and ego, and come out with a terrible ability to diagnose and a job that pays FITTY CENT more than their nursing job.
Most people should just stay nurses, quit making these for profit schools money and making the rest of us look like moneys with stethoscopes. K thnx.

What's a stethoscope?

FNP4EDSTAT · Apr 8, 2016

I have to say that where I am from it does not matter what degree you have. If an ADN and a BSN are going after the same position and they for some reason both get hired they get paid the same. Yes, I know that you people that feel that the BSN should get paid more because they have 2 more years of school However, during my career I have met plenty of ADN's that are far better nurses and have a higher knowledge base compared to a BSN. I have worked with NP's for years and I have to say that you can pick out the NP that "just got lucky" and passed his/her boards vs those that actually know what it is they are doing. They have the formal science and medical knowledge that we as a profession need to grow and prove that we are worth the position. Healthcare is an oiled machine and they want you to be able to stand on your own two feet and think for yourself. Why on earth would we pay a DNP more? When you as an NP are negotiating for positions iit is all about the marketing my friends you need to show the folks that are going to hire you what you know, what makes you better than the average joe and why they need to hire you over that other person. Networking is key and have a strong set of skills and know your information.

Purrsx2 · Apr 8, 2016

Better but still awful-case scenario they run a somewhat mathematical equation through their head: [(white coat+masters)/(debt x time)]+ [(more makeup and purses) + (acting like all those doctors we think we know better than) + (more pay +better hours so we can take care of our kids)^2 - (actually having to think and use reason + omg learning a little bit of science how terrible)]/4
in layman terms, they want better hours, more money, to act like doctors, to wear a white coat, but don't want to have to think or use logic. Overall, the decision to pursue a masters wins and they go back to school, take on more debt and ego, and come out with a terrible ability to diagnose and a job that pays FITTY CENT more than their nursing job.
Most people should just stay nurses, quit making these for profit schools money and making the rest of us look like moneys with stethoscopes. K thnx.

If I understood your post correctly, you are blasting women that go through MSN program with the goal of "wearing white coat and buying more purses/shoes" (I guess you think that you know better than them what motivated them to go to graduate school).

Your post sounds somewhat sexist to me.

Are all men that go to MSN program, exceptionally smart, and go there with the only shining goal of advancing science just by the virtue of being male? Have you seen male "monkeys with stethoscopes that make the profession look bad" or it just happen to be women in your opinion?

I have seen exceptionally bright women enrolled into MSN program and average men, who also went into the same program (and I am not even going to guess what their motivation was, because it is irrelevant to the topic). I have seen in MSN program exceptionally bright men and women of average ability as well.

Nature did not create everyone equal. Speaking of intellect, not everyone is born a genius, some people are average, some are high average, and some are below average, this is a normal variation.

Unfortunately, I have seen some very average providers with stethoscopes and MD after their name (both males and females), who often misdiagnosed their patients (AOM when patient had TMJ; RA when patient had PMR, etc.). The biggest pitfall of those providers was not listening to their patient's story (HPI/ROS) and rushing through the visit.

Going through medical/nursing school does not magically turn someone's intellect they are born with, into a genius intellect. Going through medical/nursing school does not mightily improve someone's logic and analytical skills, they are born with, either.

School pretty much gives the knowledge to pass the boards, but in 5 to 10 years later most people won't remember that entire school knowledge anymore, they will retain mostly the knowledge they apply on everyday basis. That's why constant self-education after school (beyond required CMEs) gives a great advantage over the lack of thereof. Also, learning good questioning and listening skills might actually improve diagnostic outcomes of some providers.

It is a good idea, IMHO, not to make sweeping generalizations based on gender, age, race, educational level, etc.

Salter444 · Apr 10, 2016

In 20+ years in healthcare i can count on one hand the number of MD/PA/NP I would actually call impressive. Not saying all the others were bad, some were and the majority were decent. The impressive ones maintained their learning lifelong and they shared what they knew. These were not individuals who boasted or bragged about what they did because they were too busy being excellent. I have no idea where they went to school or where they finished in their class, but they set the standard that i aim for and probably will never reach.

In general everyone else was that person wearing a stethoscope following guidelines and the is no always a bad thing. The ones who do not follow guidelines - those are the ones who scare the P out of me!!

synaptic · Apr 10, 2016

If I understood your post correctly, you are blasting women that go through MSN program with the goal of "wearing white coat and buying more purses/shoes" (I guess you think that you know better than them what motivated them to go to graduate school).
Your post sounds somewhat sexist to me.
Are all men that go to MSN program, exceptionally smart, and go there with the only shining goal of advancing science just by the virtue of being male? Have you seen male "monkeys with stethoscopes that make the profession look bad" or it just happen to be women in your opinion?
I have seen exceptionally bright women enrolled into MSN program and average men, who also went into the same program (and I am not even going to guess what their motivation was, because it is irrelevant to the topic). I have seen in MSN program exceptionally bright men and women of average ability as well.
Nature did not create everyone equal. Speaking of intellect, not everyone is born a genius, some people are average, some are high average, and some are below average, this is a normal variation.
Unfortunately, I have seen some very average providers with stethoscopes and MD after their name (both males and females), who often misdiagnosed their patients (AOM when patient had TMJ; RA when patient had PMR, etc.). The biggest pitfall of those providers was not listening to their patient's story (HPI/ROS) and rushing through the visit.
Going through medical/nursing school does not magically turn someone's intellect they are born with, into a genius intellect. Going through medical/nursing school does not mightily improve someone's logic and analytical skills, they are born with, either.
School pretty much gives the knowledge to pass the boards, but in 5 to 10 years later most people won't remember that entire school knowledge anymore, they will retain mostly the knowledge they apply on everyday basis. That's why constant self-education after school (beyond required CMEs) gives a great advantage over the lack of thereof. Also, learning good questioning and listening skills might actually improve diagnostic outcomes of some providers.
It is a good idea, IMHO, not to make sweeping generalizations based on gender, age, race, educational level, etc.

Lol your hunting for things to call sexist. You must be voting for Hilary.

You actually can improve logic. Read neuroscience topics and you'll see that

also, guys buy shoes too sooooo it's not a sexist post. But to be honest the average male np doesn't have the trouble finding jobs like the women do. Maybe it's institutional discrimination but part of it is our mindset is usually more like the docs that hire us.

Quit being feminist and vote trump

Purrsx2 · Apr 10, 2016

Do guys buy "more purses/make-up" or it was a reference to females?

Advice on reading "neuroscience topics" on males buying shoes, coupled with advice to improve my logic and assumptions on my voting preferences... hmm. I shall pass on that one.

Yes, that is true, males in US are hired more often than females and males are paid higher wages than females for exact same jobs, "glass ceiling" does exist, too, and that is due to overt and covert bias, which your post, IMHO, is very representative of.

People should be measured by their actions and contributions to society, not by their gender, race, nationality or background, IMHO.

delawaremalenurse · Apr 11, 2016

What's a stethoscope?

ooh...ooh...I KNOW! I saw one once on The View :)