From Bedside to Bench? Maybe Bedside and Bench?

[nikkijay]

Hi all! I'm still caught in a heavy debate with myself over going into nursing. I do want to be a medical practitioner, but I would also like to be a medical researcher. To be more specific, I'm very much interested in physiopathology and pathophysiology and would love a chance to work in a lab, learning more about disease processes at the cellular/molecular level and then applying that information to develop new treatments that interrupt the disease process (rather than just treating the symptoms). However, in conjunction with that, I would love to work directly with patients, caring and treating them.

From what I've been able to find, the primary group able to complete both of these tasks are MDs, and within that group, MD/PhDs complete the bulk of the research. While that could possibly be an option for me, it would be an extensively long, expensive, non-income producing road, as my current degrees are all in mental health/human services.

I'm not interested in being an MD, solely because of the reduced level of interaction between practitioners and patients. Nursing allows for the establishment of relationships, which I feel enhances medical treatment plan adherence, as well as eases the stress/fear that comes along with needing medical treatment. Oh, I guess I should say that I'm very interested in chronic illness/internal medicine.

I guess what I'm wondering is:

(a) Are any of you aware of nurses (advanced practice) that conduct biomedical research? If so, what degrees/training do they have and what which schools?

(b) Does it seem even remotely possible to be a medical scientist and a nurse?

I've been reading a lot about nurses and research and recently came an article that discussed nurse principal researchers, and while they are very few in number, they are definitely out there. I figure, if nurses can lead medical research, how much of a leap would it be to actually conduct it?

Any information that anybody can say would be greatly appreciated!

[llg, PhD, RN]

I think you will be very unhappy if you go to nursing school -- because of the many differences between nursing and medicine and the basic sciences. They are 3 different things, and of the 3, nursing seems to be the WORST fit for your interests and goals.

Yes, there are some nurses doing the type of research that interests you. But if you go into nursing, it would be years before you would have a chance to do that type of work. In the meantime, you would have to experience nursing school -- of which only 10% would please you. You would probably hate the other 90% of it.

Many of us have seen this before, students going to nursing school who then hate it and complain constantly because what they really want to be is physicians -- or basic science researchers. They are miserable and come to hate nursing, often making others around them miserable in the process as they rant and rave about how horrible nursing is. In essence, they are a square peg trying to fit into a round hole -- and everyone gets bruised in the process.

If you want to do basic science research, get a degree in basic science where you can focus on that type of work right away. You can then satisfy that part of your soul that wants to help people directly through some sort of volunteer work.

llg, PhD, RN-BC

[HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD]

Sorry if you feel as though your post triggered some hostility, but it's not personal. You just 'stepped in' a sensitive area for some people. Chief among this is a popular perception that nursing is just a lower rung on the pathway to becoming a physician. It's not. We are completely separate profession. 'Civilians' tend to lump us all into the category of "medical", but . . . . Nursing is NOT Medicine - Nursing is a health care profession but physicians are the only individuals who practice "Medicine".

Health care is subdivided into scopes of practice. These guide the educational process for each profession. Nursing research focuses on "nursing" practice (as outlined in our scope of practice). In brief, nursing practice is mostly concerned with human reaction to (real or perceived) illness, while medical practice is concerned with curing illness. There's a lot more to it, but that is the basic division.

Agree with llg, based on your interests, I don't believe you would be happy in nursing.

[RNsRWe, ASN, RN]

Nursing is medicine...I'm not really sure where you were going with that statement.

Where I was going was that nursing is NOT medicine, and you didn't seem to understand that...perhaps still don't. When people speak of the nursing model, they are referring to a pathway of education that includes nursing coursework and practice, the scope of practice of a nurse. When people speak of the medical model, they are referring to the pathway that includes medical school coursework, and the scope of practice of a medical doctor (or PA). They are different paths of education; to say that nursing is medicine is to be confused about the two very different roles in play.

I'm quite aware of the hard road ahead of me, so I don't really need to be spoken to like a child off on a wild goose chase.

And no one did that. But you asked a question that left the reader wondering if you did know the difference, and I'm sorry, but you still don't, as evidenced by your assertion that "nursing is medicine".

Go ahead and travel whatever path you want, no one is saying you think the road is easy (not sure where that came from?) but until you learn what it is that divides nursing education from medical school education, you will continue to be unclear in your decisions.

Good luck to you.

[RNsRWe, ASN, RN]

...and if I had read llg's and HouTX's posts before responding, I wouldn't have bothered :) They already said it. Except there was no hostility in anyone's posts toward the OP, but I distinctly felt it in return. Oh well.

[nikkijay]

Thanks for taking the time to respond :)

Yes, most nursing research is geared to improving patient outcomes, community health/prevention, etc, which isn't exactly what I'm looking for...interesting, but not of particular interest to me.

I've posted a link to a journal that is solely for nurses doing biological research (pathophysiology would be included in that as cellular/molecular and microbiologic research), which is exactly what I'd like to do. It's just a very small field right now, so I'm sure it'll be tough, but knowing that there are others that have accomplished this task, I feel a lot more hopeful. Thanks!

[nikkijay]

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I disagree with you, but then, I know more about myself and my goals than I've taken the time to share here. I'm not worried about time, as I'm well aware of the extensive length of time it will take for me to accomplish this goal. It's not going to be easy, but I've already taken the easy road, and I'm not happy with it. However, I am going about this smartly by speaking directly with practitioners in the field and meeting with academic advisors. I also have several job shadowing opportunities set up so that I can see first hand what nurses and doctors do rather than walking into the field blind. From what I've seen so far, nursing is where I want to be. I'll use the experiences that I'm having now and in the near future to make a final determination.

Thanks again!

[nikkijay]

Thanks for responding.

I lumped nurses into medicine because I think it is an extremely valuable and irreplaceable aspect of medicine, not because I think less of it. I don't believe doctors would be able to do what they do without the nurses that work with them, as I've learned through my own medical experiences and from the experiences of those around me. I don't see nurses as lower on the rung...which is why I don't believe that nurses have to be limited in scope of practice. The field is expanding, and what I'm seeking to do is actually already being done, and I'd just like to be a part of that expansion. I think nurses offer a lot that goes unnoticed, and it would be awesome to be a part of showing the world just how vital nurses are. I actually think that saying nursing is a health care profession while stating that physicians are the only ones that practice medicine minimizes the roles of nurses in medicine. Just my point of view, but I do appreciate you responding.

[loriangel14, RN]

[However, I am going about this smartly by speaking directly with practitioners in the field....]

....and completely arguing with advice given.

[nikkijay]

Thanks for responding. I should back up and explain myself. When I refer to nursing as medicine, I am referring to advanced practice (nurse practitioner). In that role, one does indeed practice medicine to an extent (or, for a family NP, flat out medicine), and not just nursing, as is my understanding from the nurse practitioners that I have so far spoken with (including those that have been treating me for years). It's more an amalgamation of the two fields. I do understand that they are separate fields, though very interconnected in that they rely upon each other.

My comment regarding being talked down to stemmed from the comment that attempted to tell me that I didn't need what I asked for and then attempted to state what it was that I needed instead. I can honestly admit that I did not appreciate that comment, as I am not a child that does not know what she wants. Yes, that did make me a bit hostile, as I perceived condescension in the post. I feel that same tone in this last post, but it's irrelevant at this point.

This idea that I either have to be a nurse or a scientist and that they are mutually exclusive is understandable, but with the expansion that the nursing field is making into basic research, not 100% accurate anymore. And I think a lot of the responses that I've received are based on the erroneous notion that this still holds true...and it doesn't. I found an entire journal detailing the biologic research that nurses, both RNs and advanced practice, are doing, which is exactly what I'd like to do. There is also a segment of the NINR under the NIH that deals specifically with nurses that conduct biological research.

Nobody answered the first question, which is fine, as it's been extremely difficult to find information on my own, given that the number of nurses doing biological research is still very small. I got many answers for the second question, and with the new information that I've found, I've come to my own conclusions about the feasibility of my endeavors.

So, thanks for taking the time to respond, and I'll be moving forward along my path.

Best wishes.

[RNsRWe, ASN, RN]

[However, I am going about this smartly by speaking directly with practitioners in the field....]

....and completely arguing with advice given.

This. Smart is as smart does. Done here! :)

[nikkijay]

[However, I am going about this smartly by speaking directly with practitioners in the field....]

....and completely arguing with advice given.

The advice given doesn't appear to come from a place that is knowledgeable about what I'm trying to do. So, I can take the advice of the people on this board or the people I've spoken with...I'm going with those I've spoken with that are advanced practitioners. Not sure I see the harm in that.

[nikkijay]

This. Smart is as smart does. Done here! :)

And yet, I'm not supposed to perceive condescension from your posts?