For those of you who hold a hold a biology or science degree

jpeters84 · Nov 15, 2008

Science courses such as organic chemistry and biochemistry are just completely different from nursing courses. The biology courses are easy to get burned out on because let's face it they can be very tedious and dry. You'r right, with undergraduate science courses there's not a lot of application. But there's a lot to be said for science courses especially after taking nursing courses for a little while now. With science you study hard, you master the concepts and underlying principles, you take an exam and you either know it or you don't. It's all very straightforward.

With nursing classes, outside of pathophysiology, there is not that much complex information. There's a lot of information but it's not like mastering the principles of metabolic regulation. It's more like remembering the 40 steps of putting in a Foley catheter and then being able to execute it without ever doing it before on a difficult patient. Then on the test, instead of being tested on the science and medicine behind urinary incontience or the ins and outs of foley catheterization you'll be asked some ridiculous "critical thinking" question you can't even answer even though you know everything there is to know about foley catheterization.

The exams for nursing school are down right frustrating. They try to prepare you for the NCLEX from day one. So they create these asinine exams where the questions are suppose to foster "critical thinking" but if your professor doesn't know how to write test questions, it doesn't matter how much you study you're not going to do well on the exams because they simply don't make sense. I had one exam where over 3/4 the class failed because the exam was so poorly written. The instructor had 3 other nursing Ph.D's answer 5 questions from the exam. Every one of the Ph.D's got all five of the questions wrong. After doing one of these tests it can make you want to run back to the very straightforward world of science.

With that being said the application of nursing skills in the clinical setting is without a doubt the best part. Clinicals are exhausting and stressful but are also a lof of fun and can feel really rewarding. But you have to really really really want to be a nurse. Trust me when you're wiping explosive diarrhea out of someones orrifices at 6am on 3 hours of sleep and your professor is there critiquing your "technique" you couldn't do it if you didn't really want it. Don't just go to nursing school because you're tired of science. Go to nursing school because you want to be a nurse more than anything. No way could you put up with all of the Bulls*&t if you didn't want it with all of you heart.

Plus every school is different. Be sure to do your research on what school's you're thinking of attending. Some are very clinical based, some very lecture based, some really focus on scientific rationales.

I hope I haven't scared you off. I just wanted to be brutally honest about the reality of it. To my dissapointment there has been very little science, the nursing diagnoses don't even address the medical problems. You'll be focusing away from the medicine and all on the more comfort aspects. That was a huge surprise to me, that with the sypmtoms I would be able to know the medical diagnosis but I would never be able to address it because a nursing diagnosis cannot address the medical diagnosis. Good luck to you and let me know if you have any more questions...

srleslie · Nov 15, 2008

Science courses such as organic chemistry and biochemistry are just completely different from nursing courses. The biology courses are easy to get burned out on because let's face it they can be very tedious and dry. You'r right, with undergraduate science courses there's not a lot of application. But there's a lot to be said for science courses especially after taking nursing courses for a little while now. With science you study hard, you master the concepts and underlying principles, you take an exam and you either know it or you don't. It's all very straightforward.
With nursing classes, outside of pathophysiology, there is not that much complex information. There's a lot of information but it's not like mastering the principles of metabolic regulation. It's more like remembering the 40 steps of putting in a Foley catheter and then being able to execute it without ever doing it before on a difficult patient. Then on the test, instead of being tested on the science and medicine behind urinary incontience or the ins and outs of foley catheterization you'll be asked some ridiculous "critical thinking" question you can't even answer even though you know everything there is to know about foley catheterization.
The exams for nursing school are down right frustrating. They try to prepare you for the NCLEX from day one. So they create these asinine exams where the questions are suppose to foster "critical thinking" but if your professor doesn't know how to write test questions, it doesn't matter how much you study you're not going to do well on the exams because they simply don't make sense. I had one exam where over 3/4 the class failed because the exam was so poorly written. The instructor had 3 other nursing Ph.D's answer 5 questions from the exam. Every one of the Ph.D's got all five of the questions wrong. After doing one of these tests it can make you want to run back to the very straightforward world of science.
With that being said the application of nursing skills in the clinical setting is without a doubt the best part. Clinicals are exhausting and stressful but are also a lof of fun and can feel really rewarding. But you have to really really really want to be a nurse. Trust me when you're wiping explosive diarrhea out of someones orrifices at 6am on 3 hours of sleep and your professor is there critiquing your "technique" you couldn't do it if you didn't really want it. Don't just go to nursing school because you're tired of science. Go to nursing school because you want to be a nurse more than anything. No way could you put up with all of the Bulls*&t if you didn't want it with all of you heart.
Plus every school is different. Be sure to do your research on what school's you're thinking of attending. Some are very clinical based, some very lecture based, some really focus on scientific rationales.
I hope I haven't scared you off. I just wanted to be brutally honest about the reality of it. To my dissapointment there has been very little science, the nursing diagnoses don't even address the medical problems. You'll be focusing away from the medicine and all on the more comfort aspects. That was a huge surprise to me, that with the sypmtoms I would be able to know the medical diagnosis but I would never be able to address it because a nursing diagnosis cannot address the medical diagnosis. Good luck to you and let me know if you have any more questions...

Sorry if I came across as wanting to go into nursing simply because I'm tired of science. I am not looking for an "easy" way out. I'm one of those people who never felt a certain calling in life. I recently returned to college after being out for 2 years. I've always had an interest in science but I realize now that research completely bores me. There's not much one can do with a BS in Biology, and I don't want to pursue it to the graduate level. I want to be in a health-related occupation where I have patient contact and can help people. Nursing seems to be a good field. There are also a plethora of areas one can go into with nursing, such as administration or CRNA. The pay and flexibility of nursing are appealing too. I'm looking at an excellent ADN program in my state. It's accelerated, so I would start in August and be done in 15 months. I could then start working in December and work on my BSN while I'm working. I'm attracted to nuse anesthesia, largely because of the advanced science and skill it requires.

jpeters84 · Nov 16, 2008

I didn't think you were looking for an easy way out. Since you're getting a degree in science I hardly doubt you're into taking the easy way out. And trust me, nursing school, so not the easy way out. And I really didn't think that you wanted to go to nursing school simply because you were tired of science. I'm sorry if I came off rude or as if I was making assumptions, I didn't mean to. I just meant that if you're not sure about going to nursing school look into it more because if you go into not sure it can be quite an eye opener. Also, the things that I said were all things I wish someone had told me before I had gone back to get my second degree. Maybe I was a little too harsh and from the outside it came off wrong, but you asked and I was as open about my experience as possible. It sounds like from your response to my response that you have really thought it through and that it's the right decision for you. The accelerated AD program sounds like a great way to go. Like I said before, I wish you all thebest. While education in science and nursing is very different I think the science background will serve you well and has probably given you the excellent study skills and critical thinking you'll need to be successful in nursing school.

srleslie · Nov 16, 2008

I didn't think you were looking for an easy way out. Since you're getting a degree in science I hardly doubt you're into taking the easy way out. And trust me, nursing school, so not the easy way out. And I really didn't think that you wanted to go to nursing school simply because you were tired of science. I'm sorry if I came off rude or as if I was making assumptions, I didn't mean to. I just meant that if you're not sure about going to nursing school look into it more because if you go into not sure it can be quite an eye opener. Also, the things that I said were all things I wish someone had told me before I had gone back to get my second degree. Maybe I was a little too harsh and from the outside it came off wrong, but you asked and I was as open about my experience as possible. It sounds like from your response to my response that you have really thought it through and that it's the right decision for you. The accelerated AD program sounds like a great way to go. Like I said before, I wish you all thebest. While education in science and nursing is very different I think the science background will serve you well and has probably given you the excellent study skills and critical thinking you'll need to be successful in nursing school.

No, you didn't come off as being too harsh. I do appreciate your honesty. Yes, I do think my science background will serve me well. I know how to study and quickly assiminiate information. I also have a deeper understanding of the workings of the human body than most of my fellow nursing students will have. My science background will prepare me well if I were to go to CRNA school or med school if I ever got the urge.

jjjoy, LPN · Nov 18, 2008

jpeters48 - I think you summed up some of the unfortunate realities of nursing education quite well! There are many good things to learn in nursing school as well, but there's a lot of room for improvement!

I came from a science background myself. And I was rather disappointed in the way that nursing was taught. There was lots of lipservice to knowing pathophys, pharmacology, treatments, etc... but lectures were rushed regurgitations of the textbooks and tests, as jpeters described, were often poorly written and thus difficult to pass and not reflective of one's comprehension of the material. Care plans tended to focus more on teaching, patient comfort, and psychosocial concerns than anything else. There was a lot of material to cover, time-consuming projects to work on, and clinical time to prep for and attend, leaving little time for anything more than just getting by... which was a tough adjustment for someone used to studying til I knew the material backwards, forwards and inside out.

Anyway, that's not very helpful to you srleslie. I was a bio major, too, originally and had no idea what in the world I would do with that degree and so changed my major to nursing, figuring at the very least I'd come out with a marketable skill and a better understanding of disease processes.

Well, turns out most students graduate with only the barest of clinical skills and it's in the first year or two of working full-time at the bedside that nurses develop their valued marketable skills. And nursing education only scratches the surface of disease processes. You are introduced to hundreds of conditions and procedures and the nursing care related to them over a short two years, so you only get about a paragraph or two of background on the pathophys of each condition. It's the difference of depth between taking a year long o chem with lab for majors as opposed to a 10 week intro to o chem course for non-majors.

So for folks coming from a science background, nursing school can come across as frustratingly shallow. I kind of regret not finishing my bio degree because nursing school didn't get anywhere near the degree of depth in physiology I craved to understand the disease processes, symptoms, treatment, etc.

However, if hands on care is your objective, nursing could be just the ticket for you. I highly recommend asking if you can shadow a bedside nurse or volunteering on an inpatient unit. Even if you don't plan on working in a hospital as a nurse, the bulk of nursing education focuses on the inpatient environment and the greatest opportunities for new graduate nurses is at the bedside.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do with your future!!!

**CalicoKitty, BSN, MSN, RN** · Nov 19, 2008

I got a BA in Biology in 2002. I started working in academic research. The lab I'm is a high profile lab (in the field), and I think I've gained a lot of knowledge and understanding about research. I've enjoyed working there for the past 6 years, but I decided to go to nursing school. I start in the spring, and graduate in 1 year. I haven't started classes, yet, but I'm reading an nclex review book.

Although I haven't actually done any nursing, I think my background in science and working in research has broadened my understanding. I had to retake some classes to keep them current (A&P I and II, Microbiology), and I found the classes to be really easy, now that I had a better understanding of the principles (I had Cs previously, brought them to 'easy' As this time around). Sure, I was retaking the courses, but I almost everything seemed 'new' to me this time. I just "got" it easier.

I'm thinking nursing courses (some of them), will be the same. I've already got a good deal of knowledge about many common diseases/symptoms from constantly reading the news. For the same reason, a lot of the info in my nutrition course seemed like a refresher. I think a lot of nursing knowledge is practical (how to do things), but there is also knowledge that you'd have to learn from understanding the treatment/disease (when to tell if a Dr's order doesn't seem right).

My boyfriend is a biochemist (PhD). He's applied some of his knowledge to a real life situation! He's gotten a hobby of brewing beer (lots of science involved in that!) I figured I'd follow his lead and learn about wine.

Sorry, not sure if I've helped at all or even really answered anything you asked.

tran217 · Nov 20, 2008

"frustratingly shallow"... definitely sums it up for me.

CharmedJ7 · Nov 21, 2008

Hmm this is interesting insight. I wonder if this gets better at the NP level? God I hope so. I'm a biomedical science major and a good part of what makes me want to get into health care is that I love medical science so much and I want to know as much about it as possible! Of course, I also really want a more hands on practical career that allows a lot of work with people which is why I'm thinking clinical work, but I'd be super bummed if the in-depth theory stopped.

My question for those who would describe nursing school as 'frustratingly shallow,' is, does this at all make you regret not going the medical route? Personally I would absolutely love to go to medical school from an academic stand point, but the realities of the field (once you're out and working) make me lean a lot more towards being an NP.

Thoughts?

jpeters84 · Nov 21, 2008

On some levels I have to say there's a tiny bit of regret not going to medical school to be 100% honest. The fact that the nursing diagnosis doesn't directly address the medical problem was a hard one for me to get over. The fact that physical assessment felt like a skim over class. Just the way that nursing education is done in general is very frustrating from a pragmatic scientific based view. But I have a very intelligent friend who just graduated from UC Davis medical school and she said to be not to worry because medical school has very much the same frustrations. She said the first two years are basically just a test of tedious memorization of minutae medical facts and the last two years are a random mish-mash of clinical skills and it's not at all the intellectual journey you think it's going to be. I just think nursing is a better fit for me and even though I am dissapointed and frustrated with how nursing school is done, with advanced practice I think you can make it what you want to make it. If I want to go back and take a more intense graduate biochemistry course so that I can have a more indepth background on the meds that I am giving to my patient's I can always do that. If I want to learn as much as I can about medicine there's always that opportunity. You just first have to get the degree and the experience and than you can practice in nursing research or get as indepth with it as you want. But for people like Loner who found prerequisites to be easy and love the intellectual challenge of science I think their first semester of nursing school is going to be a shock and not in a good way. I also think it's just something you have to get over.

srleslie · Nov 22, 2008

On some levels I have to say there's a tiny bit of regret not going to medical school to be 100% honest. The fact that the nursing diagnosis doesn't directly address the medical problem was a hard one for me to get over. The fact that physical assessment felt like a skim over class. Just the way that nursing education is done in general is very frustrating from a pragmatic scientific based view. But I have a very intelligent friend who just graduated from UC Davis medical school and she said to be not to worry because medical school has very much the same frustrations. She said the first two years are basically just a test of tedious memorization of minutae medical facts and the last two years are a random mish-mash of clinical skills and it's not at all the intellectual journey you think it's going to be. I just think nursing is a better fit for me and even though I am dissapointed and frustrated with how nursing school is done, with advanced practice I think you can make it what you want to make it. If I want to go back and take a more intense graduate biochemistry course so that I can have a more indepth background on the meds that I am giving to my patient's I can always do that. If I want to learn as much as I can about medicine there's always that opportunity. You just first have to get the degree and the experience and than you can practice in nursing research or get as indepth with it as you want. But for people like Loner who found prerequisites to be easy and love the intellectual challenge of science I think their first semester of nursing school is going to be a shock and not in a good way. I also think it's just something you have to get over.

There's also always the possibility of going to med school after nursing if one desires. I am drawn toward nurse anesthesia right now...I hope that that field is not "frustratingly shalow"

greygooseuria · Nov 22, 2008

I think it depends on what school you go to. In my program, most of my test questions are patho related and aren't at all questions on technical skills. For example, we'll have a question like...

Your patient has suddenly become short of breath. His lung sounds are clear but his O2 saturation is 88%. What is your first action? OR The knowledgeable nurse knows this is...

Things like that. *shrug* Although I also don't have a science BA, I have a sociology BA.