Flu shots

Nursing Students General Students

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The hospitals that my school assign us to for do clinicals at are making it an requirement that we receive the H1N1 and seasonal flu shots. I never had either and I never had the flu. I am really against getting the vaccines esp. the H1N1 because it is so new. This new flu emerged in April 2009, therefor I feel the vaccine have not been out long enough. This is just me and how I feel. Is this at every school?:uhoh3:

A hospital isn't it's own country with it's own laws. State laws apply to them as well, people just don't know it. Just like childrens schools say vaccines are required.

States have vaccination laws for schools and workplaces. Hospitals are private organizations and clinical students are not even employees of that organization. They are there as guests. A hospital can make any requirement they want.

The hospital isn't a school so it doesn't have to follow those guidelines, and the student isn't an employee of the hospital so employment law doesn't apply. They are guests in the facility: there at the hospital's pleasure. Talk to both your clinical instructor and the HR department of the hospital....see what they say.

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I do agree that looking at both sides is important. From my research one side seems very heavy with evidence and the other heavy with fear and anecdotal stories of tragedy and conspiracy.

Are you really saying that the number of deaths that may be attributed to the H1N1 vaccine is close to the amount of folks who have died from H1N1?

See, I see things total opposite. I see heavy evidence on vaccines being harmful and killing people who otherwise most likely wouldn't even came in contact with the disease. And then there's the pro-vaccine side that believes everything the CDC comes out with and sticks themselves and their kids with every vaccine they make. The media doesn't help with having ads on all the time of "GET YOUR FLU SHOT" slogans. This swine flu crap has been blown way out of proportion....people seem to forget that 36,000 people/year die every year of the flu and nobody freaks out every year during flu season. I'm sick of our rights being taken away....if someone doesn't want to get the flu shot (or any shot), they shouldn't be told they're going to get kicked out of school or fired! I don't want to be forced to inject toxins in myself or my kids bodies!

And NO, I'm not saying the people who have died from the H1N1 vaccine comes close the the people who have died from the flu. What I am saying is, I'd rather take the slight chance of getting the illness rather then injecting something willingly into my body that can cause harm/death.

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States have vaccination laws for schools and workplaces. Hospitals are private organizations and clinical students are not even employees of that organization. They are there as guests. A hospital can make any requirement they want.

The hospital isn't a school so it doesn't have to follow those guidelines, and the student isn't an employee of the hospital so employment law doesn't apply. They are guests in the facility: there at the hospital's pleasure. Talk to both your clinical instructor and the HR department of the hospital....see what they say.

Guidelines? No....they're laws and yes they do have to follow them. Why not? So someone can commit murder in the hospital but if their "guidelines" don't match the state laws, the person walks? No.....a law is a law. Point proven....look at those nurses that were suing the hospitals for getting fired because they refused to get the vaccine.

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Specializes in L&D/Maternity nursing.

I can appreciate your POV CrunchyMama. The 36k people each year dying of the flu not receiving any attention while H1N1 gets all this unnecessary hype is a bit much, IMO. And I agree, I dont feel that anyone should be forced to get vaccinated.

However, as a health care worker, I feel that it is my duty to protect my patients from harm. And when in the hospital, often times sick and extremely vulnerable, the flu can be extremely debilitating for these individuals.

Also, I have the option of finding a facility that supports my views and beliefs. I have the option of not working for an organization who requires things of me that I do not feel comfortable with.

As a student, I am assigned to clinical sites. Those clinical sites have their own policies and protocols and can dictate who is and insnt allowed into their facilities as a guest. A student is a guest. If they say H1N1 or else I am not welcome, then, I have a choice to make. I can either get vaccinated or give up my spot, and thus position within the nursing program.

I chose to get vaccinated. I didnt want to compromise my position within my program. However, I did wait til the last possible minute, so that I could wait til the IM became available because personally, I was not comfortable with the nasal spray.

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Specializes in L&D/Maternity nursing.

Surely are not suggesting that mandated vaccinations of health care workers and murder are comparable are you?

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Guidelines? No....they're laws and yes they do have to follow them. Why not? So someone can commit murder in the hospital but if their "guidelines" don't match the state laws, the person walks? No.....a law is a law. Point proven....look at those nurses that were suing the hospitals for getting fired because they refused to get the vaccine.

Yup nurses were suing the hospitals...as employees there is employment law that outlines what the hospital is allowed to mandate.

Students are not employees of the hospital (well they may be on their own of course, but they are not considered employees in their student nurse role), as guests of the the hospital they have the choice to comply with the hospital's request, or leave.

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Specializes in Medical and general practice now LTC.

OK guys I think here we have to agree to disagree on something. Yes personal choice comes into play but so does what is required by either the school or nursing establishment. So research is the key as well as following rules set down if you are able to opt out and sign a form then that is something only you can decide but don't pull up on others if their views are different that yours.

We encourage friendly debates here on AN so please try to keep this friendly

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I can appreciate your POV CrunchyMama. The 36k people each year dying of the flu not receiving any attention while H1N1 gets all this unnecessary hype is a bit much, IMO. And I agree, I dont feel that anyone should be forced to get vaccinated.

However, as a health care worker, I feel that it is my duty to protect my patients from harm. And when in the hospital, often times sick and extremely vulnerable, the flu can be extremely debilitating for these individuals.

Also, I have the option of finding a facility that supports my views and beliefs. I have the option of not working for an organization who requires things of me that I do not feel comfortable with.

As a student, I am assigned to clinical sites. Those clinical sites have their own policies and protocols and can dictate who is and insnt allowed into their facilities as a guest. A student is a guest. If they say H1N1 or else I am not welcome, then, I have a choice to make. I can either get vaccinated or give up my spot, and thus position within the nursing program.

I chose to get vaccinated. I didnt want to compromise my position within my program. However, I did wait til the last possible minute, so that I could wait til the IM became available because personally, I was not comfortable with the nasal spray.

Thank you! And trust me, I understand the pro-vaccine side as well...that's the side I used to be on, lol. Diseases are a scary thing and I can see why some jump on the opportunity to get vaccinated. But it is best to look at BOTH sides (the risks of the vaccines and the extremely small chance of getting these diseases and MOST times are fairly treatable). I understand your feelings about wanting to protect your patients. I just feel differently.... MY body comes first. If I feel a vaccine is more harmful then good, then it's my right to say no and I shouldn't have that right taken away or be led to believe getting the vaccine is the only option. Aside from the philosophical and religious exemptions....what about medical exemptions. Is it ok for a student to get kicked out of school or a healthcare worker to be fired due to having an adverse reaction to a toxin in the vaccine? I'm sure in the history of exemptions healthcare workers (and students) have waived getting the vaccine due to medical reasons. Ok...now what about religious? If I (or anyone) refuses a vaccine because it contains aborted fetal tissue, I should get kicked out of the program? IMO, hell no! Yes we should be protecting our patients and I believe I do, by washing my hands constantly and eating healthy (trying to, lol)....and from what I've seen, the flu shot is offered to patients upon admission.....if they want to protect themselves, they're more then welcome to do so.

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Surely are not suggesting that mandated vaccinations of health care workers and murder are comparable are you?

OMG NO! I'm just saying, hospitals are not exempt from state laws.

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Yup nurses were suing the hospitals...as employees there is employment law that outlines what the hospital is allowed to mandate.

Students are not employees of the hospital (well they may be on their own of course, but they are not considered employees in their student nurse role), as guests of the the hospital they have the choice to comply with the hospital's request, or leave.

Yes, I understand the students are guests. But they/us are state citizens, so the laws of the state protect them/us.

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Yes, I understand the students are guests. But they/us are state citizens, so the laws of the state protect them/us.

Of course, but there isn't "guest law." There is employment law that deals with what employers can mandate of employees, and there is law that deals with post-secondary education that your school of nursing has to follow.

Which of those sets of laws to you feel applies to guests in a private institution? None of it does. That's why hospitals can mandate any vaccine they want of students who are their guests.

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Specializes in L&D/Maternity nursing.
Yes, I understand the students are guests. But they/us are state citizens, so the laws of the state protect them/us.

That's not necessarily true for everyone. Some students go to school in a state that is not where their established residency is.

I don't believe this debate is quite as black and white as we'd like to think it is.

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