Florida IPN and Kratom

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Does the Florida IPN test for kratom?

hppygr8ful said:

Well it is mood altering just not to the extent that it affects safe practice. I mean I never smoked just cause it tasted good. Many hospitals are now declining to hire people who use nicotine so aside from the health risks it's just not worth it

It's not considered a mood altering agent. It's not something you can do and get hired at some places for other reasons.  

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Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
Healer555 said:

It's not considered a mood altering agent. It's not something you can do and get hired at some places for other reasons.  

Well I beg to differ but it is mood altering. It's only legal because it's been around since the dawn of time. For some it directly effects the dopamine receptors in the brain.. 

According to the Alcohol and drug foundation: "Nicotine is a stimulant drug that speeds up the messages travelling between the brain and body. It is the main psychoactive ingredient in tobacco products."

For people who smoke tobacco products regularly, they will build up a tolerance to the immediate short-term effects of smoking tobacco, and may experience the following effects after smoking: mild stimulation, increase in heart rate, increased ability to concentrate, relaxation. 

Use of nicotine through smoking may eventually cause the following types of chronic disease and issues: such as stroke, blindness, cataracts (eye diseases), birth defects if the fetus is exposed to cigarettes, periodontitis (yellowing teeth, gum disease), aortic aneurism (enlarging of major blood vessels), coronary heart disease, pneumonia, various respiratory diseases (shortness of breath, asthma, coughing fits, diabetes, reduced fertility, ectopic pregnancy (in the fallopian tube), hip fractures, male sexual dysfunction, rheumatoid arthritis, reduced immune function (regular colds and flu), overall diminished health (ageing, back pain, slower healing wounds, mood swings).

The long term effects of vaping nicotine are poorly understood at this time, but studies are on-going and no one can deny the addictive properties of nicotine. 

Many employer and not just medical ones are starting to exclude people who use tobacco products due to the fact that (According to health insurance carrier) They (users or tobacco product) have more missed work days due to illness than non tobacco users. one of my past employers had a 20% addition to health insurance.

But you are right. It's not mood altering the way alcohol, marijuana or illicit substances are. It doesn't make it a non mood altering. 

Hppy

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hppygr8ful said:

Well I beg to differ but it is mood altering. It's only legal becae it's been around since the dawn of time. For some it directly effects the dopamine receptors in the brain.. 

According to the Alcohol and drug foundation: "Nicotine is a stimulant drug that speeds up the messages travelling between the brain and body. It is the main psychoactive ingredient in tobacco products."

For people who smoke tobacco products regularly, they will build up a tolerance to the immediate short-term effects of smoking tobacco, and may experience the following effects after smoking: mild stimulation, increase in heart rate, increased ability to concentrate, relaxation. 

Use of nicotine through smoking may eventually cause the following types of chronic disease and issues: such as stroke, blindness, cataracts (eye diseases), birth defects if the fetus is exposed to cigarettes, periodontitis (yellowing teeth, gum disease), aortic aneurism (enlarging of major blood vessels), coronary heart disease, pneumonia, various respiratory diseases (shortness of breath, asthma, coughing fits, diabetes, reduced fertility, ectopic pregnancy (in the fallopian tube), hip fractures, male sexual dysfunction, rheumatoid arthritis, reduced immune function (regular colds and flu), overall diminished health (ageing, back pain, slower healing wounds, mood swings).

The long term effects of vaping nicotine are poorly understood at this time, but studies are on-going and no one can deny the addictive properties of nicotine. 

Many employer and not just medical ones are starting to exclude people who use tobacco products due to the fact that (According to health insurance carrier) They (users or tobacco product) have more missed work days due to illness than non tobacco users. one of my past employers had a 20% addition to health insurance.

But you are right. It's not mood altering the way alcohol, marijuana or illicit substances are. It doesn't make it a non mood altering. 

Hppy

If Wikipedia says....

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Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
Healer555 said:

If Wikipedia says....

I did not get this of Wikipedia - but I will not continue to argue the point with someone who is not interested in truth.

Hppy

 

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Hi does anyone know if Kratom is tested for routinely in random monitoring in Alabama? I'm sure the chemical evaluation will have a lot of persuasion but just wasn't sure if they tested for it without having any previous issue with it? I use it in a face cream and it has done wonders for me. Thanks 

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Yes it is tested for REGULARLY in each and every state. Some nurse will come on here and tell you that they only get the "standard option test" and that Kratom is not in those options. The nurse is partially correct. Kratom is generally not in moat atandard option tests, BUT......your case manager can easily do an "add on" for things like Kratom, Neurontin, Benadryl, Inhalants, Salvi, K2, Spice etc. Most nurses will Never know about that add on either. The nurse just thinks they are getting "Option 2, Option 7" etc and the nurse looks up Option 2 or Option 7 and thinks they are only being tested for exactly what is in those options. But, It takes your program manager a grand total of 10 seconds to go into your drug testing order and do an "add on" to the panel/option thst you see that you are selected for and this happens REGULARLY.

The answer to your question is YES.

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In summary to the above, you may think you are simply being tested for "Option 3 or 4 or 5 or whatever" option you are selected for so you look up that option and find what is tested in that option and you believe that's its. Only what is listed in that option is tested for. That's a false belief because again, case managers regularly do "add ons" which are in addition to the option you are testing for.

Most common add on? Benadryl, Neurotin, Salvi, Synthetic type things like K2/Spice/Salvi and people get nailed all the time from these.

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So what would the rationale for just adding on any other type of drugs like the ones you referenced above without any hx of issues with that particular drug? I understand Peth and all but random Benadryl and salvi seems odd to me. 

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trlg89 said:

So what would the rationale for just adding on any other type of drugs like the ones you referenced above without any hx of issues with that particular drug? I understand Peth and all but random Benadryl and salvi seems odd to me. 

It's because there are some people who will abuse any medication or drug. Because some people do it we all pay the price. 

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trlg89 said:

So what would the rationale for just adding on any other type of drugs like the ones you referenced above without any hx of issues with that particular drug? I understand Peth and all but random Benadryl and salvi seems odd to me. 

The rationale is based on the addiction principle of cross addiction or Addiction Transfer which is well established and tried and true in the literature. It's based on a person being addicted to a substance and ultimately, that substance raises Dopamine levels, so in the end, it's the Dopamine that the person becomes dependent on. An example, a nurse is addicted to Fentanyl and all of a sudden, they go into monitoring and recovery and stop Fentanyl. They've only drank 5 beers in their life. In one-year, they become an alcoholic. Take same example above as the nurse stops Fentanyl, they way 120 lbs and they are in great shape. In 8 months, they've gained 50 lbs and are addicted to food. Another example, a nurse is addicted to Benzos and they stop and are doing good in recovery. In one year they watch porn daily even though they only watched porn rarely one year prior.

Once a human crosses the addiction threshold, the brain is forever changed literally and physically. New neuronal circuits are created and there is always an increased chance for wanting those dopamine surges. This is why they do add ons in testing. Now, does the above principle mean that every person with addiction history will trade the former addiction for another one? Of course not. BUT, the chances are higher of this happening compared to a nurse who has no history of addiction.

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I appreciate the information. Do you work in addiction treatment? 
thanks 

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trlg89 said:

I appreciate the information. Do you work in addiction treatment? 
thanks 

Yes. Psych NP, former addict/ in recovery for many years/former criminal. Went through a monitoring program many years ago. Now, travels the country some of the time teaching recovery and the part of my time, researcher/lecturer at a University in Idaho. 

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