Petition to help new grads get experience - page 5

In light of the struggles that new grads are having securing a job, this petition may be of interest to many of you. has nothing to do with this petition. We are not endorsing it... Read More

  1. by   Tatinha
    We live in a democratic society, at least I like to believe so. We have to remember that we pay taxes and the government works for us. However, we need to let our lawmakers know what we need. I think this petition is a great idea in terms of getting new graduates nurses and the new generation to be more active in defending the interests of the nursing profession. Apathy and whining among us will do nothing to change. So when some nurses complain about being overworked and understaffed, for example, they should take some form of action. Apathy will take you nowhere.

    But the highest value of this petition is to let people know what they are getting into before going to nursing school. Everyone has the right to an education. If they want to be a nurse, they should be able to attend nursing school. My problem is when the media keeps telling these prospective students that they will have a career after graduation. And the reality is far from that for a lot of new graduates, from science to business majors.
  2. by   LadyFree28
    Quote from myelin
    I think it's prudent for more experienced RNs to remember that this is the worst recession since the Great Depression and getting a job as a new grad is probably much more difficult today than it was for them, so it isn't like the new grads are complaining about nothing. I also wish the government respected our training enough to fund residencies, like it does for physicians, and I think petitioning the government to consider this is actually an excellent idea, though I'm not sure if this specific petition is what I have in mind. You don't get respect unless you demand it.

    Lastly, I think we should shut down all for-profit nursing schools (RN or NP level). Or just make it so that students at for-profit schools do not qualify for federal student loans - the problem will solve itself.

    I completed my nursing studies Dec 2011 through an accelerated BSN program at a local University. Most were eligible to sit for the NCLEX...50% of those people were able to get a job, 40% had no connections to get into their facilities. I had to wait until May, got licensed in June. Tweaked rsum during the summer, got calls/interviews from September-November. Accepted a position at a PICU, starting in Feb.

    A lot of my classmates ranged from 18-50, a percentage had healthcare experience, including LPNs like myself, and second degree individuals, as well as people fresh out of high school. A lot believed I would get a job IMMEDIATELY...I didn't expect it, maybe because I had prior knowledge of how hospital economics worked, a part was being aware of the slide of the economy since 2005, when they were laying off people and the whole "phasing out of LPNs" talk was happening to balance the books, which ultimately led to the BSN only well as other factors that were beyond any nurses control.

    We were told in orientation that the average cycle to find a job from this particular university's program was 18 months counting the time from licensure to actually starting the position. For me it will be 8 months, for others, it was before school ended, 3-4 months, many still haven't got any bite yet, however, I know a few who JUST passed their exams and they are discouraged for not finding work (side-eye).

    I do agree that a lot of For-Profits and non-accredited programs are taking advantage of individuals who otherwise need to strengthen their post-secondary education skills and provide substandard education and clinical rotations-that includes LPNs-NP schools...People are going BROKE and the income coming out is not going to match the debt, especially if people are not taking advantage of the government's scholarships and nursing repayment programs, or the Perkins Loan forgiveness (or not eligible to). On the other hand, there are schools that are not considering individuals until they go through some patient care experience PRIOR to going to nursing school, as well as setting up partnerships with universities.

    I do think nurses do need to help shape how present AND future nurses are treated-and understand the current changes, which include increase in understanding safe practices, ethical dilemmas, as well as the increase in taking care of more complex patients in our communities, as well as hospital economics, nursing theories, etc...all these factors give a great big picture if the powers we have as a nurse-we are not "just" LPNs, ADNS, DNs, BSNs, etc ad nausem-we have a practice that is essential to healthcare. As one poster stated, it is an exciting time in nursing, and I agree with the poster that the future is bright...and I do believe we all have a part in moving our profession forward.

    As for nurses trying to gain their footing in this profession, there are many roads that lead to Rome, as a nursing recruiter reminded me as she helped me tweak my rsum-and I believe her suggestions helped me land a position sooner rather than later-at a nursing career conference. There are many postings that do help and assist on AN...been a member when I first started LPN school, and it has always been honest about the trends in nursing...while I have started posting more, I have always lurked and read posts, and I do enjoy that we have so many members that each play a role in our profession. I think we-the new grads, old grads, soon to be grads, and people waiting to get into nursing school to the ones who are waiting to take the NCLEX can do our due diligence to decide how we want to shape our career and how we can contribute to it in terms of mentoring (I found local chapters of ANA and state nursing associations provide great mentoring and see the future in front of them and do want to pass the torch) education, and innovation for the future. I believe life is what we make question is, how much of nursing can we make it?? I think a lot depends where you start and where you want to go...there are places in nursing like local nursing chapters that may be a start as a way to network, gain experience, provide additional education and a foot in the well as this site for information and ideas.
  3. by   joanna73
    I graduated in 2010, and the economy was just as bad. Our graduation rate was around 45 percent, so people were definitely weeded out. Also, I relocated over 2000 miles away for my first RN position, so I am well aware of how bad things are for new grads. All of my friends had jobs within a year of graduation. I empathize with those who are struggling, but a petition is not the answer. It isn't just new grad nurses who are struggling. Many other professions are too, and have for years. And to those who took out huge loans to finance school....well realistically, you should have figured out beforehand how much debt you could reasonably afford. Schools rip people off who don't do their research.
  4. by   myelin
    I agree that the struggles of this field are not unique. Many, many fields are having a hard time right now and young professionals with fresh degrees/licenses are struggling across the board. In fact, nursing appears to be significantly better than law or psychology, as far as I can tell.

    However, I'm surprised by some of the backlash in this thread, frankly. Having worked in other fields, I've never seen members of a field argue that petitioning the government for respect and/or training opportunities/funding (whether it be for education, research grants, etc.) is a bad thing. Very odd. The government works for us and there is free money out there we could use to advance our profession, we just need to fight for it. One reason why MDs/DOs have government-funded guaranteed training is because their field was deemed important enough by the American people. I think nursing is just as important, so I applaud efforts to make our voices heard and improve our education and job opportunities, especially in light of such a terrible economy. The federal government is looking to spend money on jobs/training that leads to jobs due to the economic downturn, I believe nurses should be in line. Just some food for thought.

    I also agree that people should do their homework beforehand. If I read one more thread where a NP student is desperately begging (even offering to pay on top of their tuition!!?!) for preceptors because they chose to enter a program that doesn't lift a finger to help them, I might scream.
    Last edit by myelin on Jan 12, '13
  5. by   nurseprnRN
    Demographics, ladies and gentlemen, demographics. A lot of my boomer generation went to nursing school (when it was really "Stand up when the DOCTOR enters the nursing station, work three years of straight nights and maybe you'll get a spot on days, work three weekends out of four, Christmas and New Years are really two holidays (Eve and Day) so you're always gonna work one of each of them, and be really happy you're earning $700/month").

    We would dearly love to be able to retire and let someone with younger knees take over. There really are a lot of us, maybe more than there are of you-- we are the demographic bulge. Many of us are now occupying management and other non-bedside jobs, but that's blocking your advancement, too, I guess. Alas, what was laughingly called our retirement accounts (both ours and our significant others') took a 50% hit in the last five years and our significant others' jobs are gone, and so we can't even afford to go to part time with no benefits (especially with these knees). So no, we are not going away quite yet. We can't.

    Don't take it all so personally. We'll drop in our tracks sooner or later-- god knows we can't afford to retire at 65 the way our parents did. Sooner or later, then, you can have the joys of giving nursing care as we know it now-- twelve hour shifts, decreasing benefits, more UAPs and fewer real nurses, more responsibility than I hear you willing or able to shoulder, a customer-service mentality, endless worries about legalities and lawsuits, patients with serious entitlement issues, and did I mention that those pension plans and matching for your IRAs are no longer offered? Meanwhile, get better educations-- I see ads for nurses, not many, in the paper, and they almost all say "BSN required/preferred" so when those of us who have them now are dead you can have our jobs.

    Look less at your navels and more at the long run. Your time will come. Besides, we'll need you to pay our Social Security benefits.
    Last edit by nurseprnRN on Jan 12, '13
  6. by   XmasShopperRN
    Patient care within hospital and LTC settings is comprised of many disciplines including medicine AND nursing, along with others such as social work, pharmacy, etc. Namely in acute-care settings, patients receive the majority of their medical care from residents with minimal oversight by senior residents or attendings. Though it's not much, is anyone aware of who primarily foots the bill of a medical resident's salary? Yes, that's right-Medicare. From a first year resident to their final year of residency, Medicare picks up the tab. Medicare is willing to invest in an inexperienced "MD" with nothing to their credit aside from completion of medical school. July is the absolute worst time of year as that's when the new residents begin residency, and I can attest to the fact that I wouldn't trust 90% of them to perform first-aid, let alone attempt their first chest tube insertion at bedside.
    The federal government funds the cost of medical residency, so then why doesn't Medicare provide funding for new graduate nurses' salaries? A learning curve and lack of experience exists for both graduates, but I can honestly say that I've never encountered a new graduate nurse who didn't know the name of or purpose of a pulse oximeter. I cannot say the same for a first year medical resident who questioned me about what I was putting on his patient's finger as I prepped the patient for a chest tube insertion....
  7. by   LadyFree28
    There is a MYTH that CMS and insurances do not pay for nursing care...they do...they set the rates for reimbursement, and it is up to the agency to pick up the rest of the tab from the budget. Our rates are dependent on a portion of insurance reimbursement and the hospitals' operating costs...some prefer to include pricing by specialty...I just work in a part of the field that was very upfront on how they calculate wages...I worked with two different HH agencies...each said they are bound by insurance and CMS rates for nursing care, HOWEVER, the other company added dollars because they VALUED nurses and want to make sure they retained the best nurses (their speil , not mine)...and wages were more if you were a trach/vent nurse. You not always see it in the bedside at a large facility, but the reimbursement is there...I don't care how many times I post this, until we as nurses get it...we get reimbursed...WHY do you think that most insurance companies have nurses give you info on policies, navigation of care, etc and not a MD??? We are valued for our information...also the government has repayment assistance for new grads. I believe that they do have a grace period of new grad status-should they give exceptions to that rule, I can agree to Federal Perkins Loans ARE FORGIVABLE. They wanted Sallie Mae to be forgivable as well, but certain representatives in Congress wanted them scrapped...that is why the forgiveness loan bill remains not voted on to this day, or the Jobs bill that would assist hospitals to hire nurses and help fund programs to assist nurses in going back to school or tuition reimbursement through tax breaks for the healthcare organizations, but their are lobbyists for healthcare that see it as a lucrative business and want more profits and bottom line REGARDLESS of staffing and care. Also, there is tuition forgiveness for nurse educators STILL. Be knowledgeable to what's going on in our profession...should programs in place be tweaked to help decrease the burden of debt and more opportunities? Sure, but the ideas that the government have to address those needs had have been tabled, and they do want to help nurses...don't know when those bills are going to be passed, however...keep doing due diligence, ladies and gents! And keep surviving!!!
  8. by   RNdynamic
    Quote from Altra
    I cannot sign the petition, as I do not agree with any of the proposed solutions.

    I disagree in broad principle with the idea that "President Obama can help new graduate nurses gain the experience needed to get a nursing job". Are we saying that we want the president of the United States to say to the American people: At a time of economic difficulty and sweeping changes in the financing of the health care industry, I want to impose on health care facilities to hire less experienced nurses to take care of patients? Very wrong, on many levels, IMO.
    Why not? Enormous grants are given to healthcare facilities for physician residency programs. Why not offer the same to nurse residency programs? Are nurses not as vital to this country's healthcare system as physicians?
  9. by   XmasShopperRN
    A medical resident's salary is paid via Federal money for the sole purpose of providing hands-on, clinical experience and continued education for medical school graduates. That's the objective of any medical residency program. So while CMS may allocate XX amount of dollars for nursing care provided, the amount is beyond laughable, and certainly not enough to constitute a "salary". In addition, there are no financial incentives or designated monies paid by Medicare or other Federal agencies to fund any nursing residency programs.
    Without Medicare-funded medical residencies, there would be no incentive for hospitals to employ and fund "newbie" doctors and their novice educations. Medicare foots residents' salaries because it is much cheaper to pay a first year resident's salary that equates to something like $8 an hour as opposed to the much more significant salaries that attendings or fellows receive.
    Bottom line is, if there were no nurses, doctors wouldn't be able to do their job, and vice versa. Patient care already suffers 2/2 to inadequate nursing staffing with resulting unsafe nurse to pt ratios. Ratios that are direct resultants of hospital and corporate greediness along with a healthcare and political culture that doesn't place adequate importance and funding upon education AND training of its nursing workforce. At least not as much emphasis as is placed upon medical training.
    Personally, what I think could equate to a possible solution for the difficulties that many new graduate nurses continue to face in locating employment is whatever money CMS makes payable for nursing care be solely designated for nursing salaries. Regardless of how many patients a medical resident cares for, their salary is predetermined and guaranteed once they land that residency. While the salaries aren't much to write home about, the provider is gaining valuable clinical experience that will make them marketable in the future. With invested time and expanding clinical competencies, the residents' salaries increase yearly. I don't see why those same principles cannot be applied to the training of new graduate and less-experienced nurses.
  10. by   LadyFree28
    Quote from RNdynamic

    Why not? Enormous grants are given to healthcare facilities for physician residency programs. Why not offer the same to nurse residency programs? Are nurses not as vital to this country's healthcare system as physicians?
    Good point...Nurses ARE vital...I think that there should be more nurse residency programs, especially in LTC care, LTAC as well, caring for our nations veterans, the VA...How about we start a petition on that???
  11. by   funfunfun550
    I had to laugh at this response. One of our PCA 's graduated from RN school AND typed her resume on the hospital computer. I had to look at it twice because it in NO way described her. She had SUCH an highly inflated opinion of herself. Even myself that is not one to participate in gossip knew that she was thought of very poorly. Never smiled and was the laziest person./ So glad she got a job on another floor.
    Now there are MANY highly qualified and persons suitable as a new grad for the few new jobs that come open. However they need to get their foot in the door and showcase what they are all about so they can land a job immediately after school!
  12. by   funfunfun550
    There were BIG cuts in residency program money last presidential term. Thus paving the way for the NP's to replace some of their hours. Maybe this is information that I have obtained but it has certainly changed the practice at the teaching hospital I am employed by.
  13. by   funfunfun550
    How long have you been out of school> Just curious..and are you in a rural or urban area>? What kind of jobs have you applied for ? Would you work anywhere but an acute care hospital.
    The job market was similiar when I graduated from nursing school. Guess what I could not move back I did move back AFTER a year experience..took a $4 cut in pay. Things are not always fair...but for one we have too many nursing schools pumping out inferior new grads.(not saying you are _ but alot are NOT prepared to work in an acute care setting and guess what hospitals know that.This is why they bank their money on BSN grads....and young healthy nurses that they can see investing alot of money in.