FDA approves infant vaccine for diarrhea virus

wincha · Feb 5, 2006

Oh, yippee....ANOTHER vaccine..... rolling my eyes here....
(But I do agree that in *third world countries* this may be a very good thing) But please don't mandate this like the rediculous chicken pox vax! '
(sorry I'm in a mood tonight and am truly sick of my instructors teaching on this subject without ALL of the available info and studies on vaccines being presented. Its SOOOOOOOOOOOO one sided - I swear I'm better educated about vaccines than any of them....oh well, thats what ya get in mainstream USA nursing schools. I just grit my teeth and bite my tongue....have any of them read and/or studied anything seriously anti-vaccine? Anyone want to make a guess at how many of these pro-vaccine studies are flawed and people just dont realize??? Also, if vaccines are so innocent why does the gov't pay out for vax injuries and deaths??)
Lordy, I probably should have kept my mouth shut....

Since my youngest had severe sensory issues I am in an email group on the autistic spectrum. Luckily with therapy my son is doing well. I have learned alot from these parents and have read alot about these studies and you are right. The mercury in these vaccines could be contributing to the rise of autisim. I think the ratio now is 1 to 140 children who have autism.

mandana · Feb 5, 2006

Thanks for answering!

Amanda

onehusbandsevenkids · Feb 5, 2006

i am under the impression that vaccines were never definatively linked with autism, and that all the speculation around that occurred back when vaccines were still being made with preservatives containing mercury- which is obviously no longer the case : )
it's back to the old argument of benefits vs. the risks. and i personally believe that the benefits outweigh the risks when the vaccine is one that has the power to save alot of lives through prevention.
Just my opinion.

Actually, I do believe that most (if not all) vaccines still do contain small (trace?) amounts of mercury. I'd have to go look it up again.

Even so, mercury is not the only concern w/vaccines.

onehusbandsevenkids · Feb 5, 2006

If you don't want your kids to have it, fine. But this might be a lifesaver for children in undeveloped countries.

I agree!

BUT dont make it mandatory for children in the US to have if their parents don't wish them to have yet another vaccine for a very low risk problem here - and if I were a betting person, I'd bet that thats exactly where this is headed.....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

ayndim · Feb 5, 2006

I will never use a new, "untried" vaccine on my children. I have always believed that vaccines start too early and therefore delay them until my kids are between 6-9 months. Mind you I was a stay-at-home mom who breastfed exclusively and was not given grief by my ped. I probably would have seen it differently if my kids had to go to daycare. Anyway, had I not delayed the vaccines my oldest would have received the original rotavirus vaccine. I know the incidents were rare but I always wonder...... So I am all for vaccinating at an appropriate age and for diseases that are a threat to our own children (i.e., a threat if they got the disease, not a threat of catching it). I may be wrong but I don't see rotavirus as a huge threat if my children got it. From my understanding, dehydration is the biggest concern. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

I am not sure if it is just my ped or if it is now standard, but I insisted that there be no mercury (thimerosol, sp?) in my kids vaccines. I was told that the vaccines were thimerosol-free. I assumed it was every child vaccine not just the ones my ped used. But who knows. The ped gets alot of business from the CNM clients and he may have had a lot of demand for thimerosol-free vaccines. Most of the women I talked to when at appts for the CNM had some reservations about vaccines.

JeanettePNP, MSN, RN, NP · Feb 5, 2006

Yay! I'm glad to see anti-vaxxers here on a nursing board.

VeryPlainJane · Feb 5, 2006

One of the best ways to determine whether a particular disease or syndrome is genetic is to examine the incidence in identical (monozygotic) and fraternal (dizygotic) twins. Using a strict definition of autism, when one twin has autism, 60% of identical and 0% of fraternal twins have autism. Using a broader definition of autism (i.e., autistic spectrum disorder), when one twin has autism, approximately 92% of identical and 10% of fraternal twins have autism.

Therefore, autism clearly has a genetic basis.

http://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p2065.htm

onehusbandsevenkids · Feb 5, 2006

One of the best ways to determine whether a particular disease or syndrome is genetic is to examine the incidence in identical (monozygotic) and fraternal (dizygotic) twins. Using a strict definition of autism, when one twin has autism, 60% of identical and 0% of fraternal twins have autism. Using a broader definition of autism (i.e., autistic spectrum disorder), when one twin has autism, approximately 92% of identical and 10% of fraternal twins have autism.
Therefore, autism clearly has a genetic basis.
http://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p2065.htm

That may be. It may be *part* of it.

BUT I don't care what anyone says - I am expected to believe that thousands of children who were perfectly normal before a vax and then had (and in some, almost immediate) drastic changes in them occur have nothing to do with the vax?

I can't believe "they" can "tell us that with a straight face and expect "we" mere parents, not medical "experts," are too dumb to figure it out for ourselves......

I just don't buy it. There are just too many children, too many cases. I just don't buy it.

Also, if I had the time, I'm sure I could dig up a rebuttal to what the above website has to say. But, at the moment I have a nursing exam, an A&P 2 exam, a med term exam, a nutrition presentation and a pharmacology quiz to study for/complete. :uhoh3:

marilynmom, LPN, NP · Feb 5, 2006

I think this might be a good idea in underdeveloped countries but not here in the US for every child. Even though I think money would be better spent in cleaning up the water supply, nutrition, hand washing, infection control practices, good medical/nursing care, preventative medicine, etc These countries wouldn't have these diseaes if they had the above!

I encourage ALL health care providers to PLEASE take the time to educate yourself about vaccines....what are the ingredients, what exactly is the disease your being vax'ed for, what are the risks of the vax, if you did get the disease would it kill you or would you develop lifelong immunity to pass along to your child while they are in the most vunerable time of infancy while breastfeeding them, etc

You guys ROCK! I truly thought I might one of the very few in nursing school that questions vaccines! Am I totally anit-vax? No. I am currently educating myself about the HepB vax and the risks, benefits, for myself. As a healthy adult I have a 90% chance of totally recovery if I do contract HepB for instance. Would I get the HepB vax for my 4 and 7 year old? Well since they are currently sexually inactive, dont share needles, etc they are not at risk, so no. Would I get the rotovirus vax for my kids, no they are/were totally breastfed and rotovirus is *extremely* rare in breastfed babies.....but for children in underdeveloped countries with no clean IVs, water supply in contaminated for drinking, cooking and formula mixing, etc I think the risk of dying from rotovirus far outweighs the risk of the vaccine in those countries at this time, though I dont think it will be the answer to the problem either. But I guess we will have to see if the vaccines truly turns out to be effective or not.

And yes there IS still mercury in vaccines (it was only suggested that it be removed btw)--people still believe it was all taken out?! Some vaccines still have the full amount, others have less/trace, some never had any to begin with but it is still in there for sure. There are plently of charts online that show the exact amount of mercury is in what vaccine your giving your children and yourself. But of course mercury isn't the only problem.

We wont let our children play with a broken mercury thermometer, wont let them put a finger in antifreeze (which is in vax's as well), wouldn't let our children to even put a TINY drop in their mouths, we know that aluminum is associated with degeneratie diseases and is also in vaccines, etc but we will inject all that and MORE into our childs bloodstream where no studies have ever been done? There is aborted fetal tissues used in some vaccines, antibiotics (streptomycin, neomycin, and polymyxin B), other species DNA (monkey, etc), formaldehyde, hydrochloric acid, etc you can see all those on the manufactures websites or the package inserts.

Here is an interesting chart on vaccines. Also why did diseases such as scarlet fever, etc go away without vaccines? Could sanitation, clean water, food, clean places to live, universal precautions, etc have anything to do with the reason these diseases went away or were *drastically* declining BEFORE vaccines? Is that why these diseases are still rampant and killing thousands in underdeveloped countries where there is no clean water, malnutrition, unsafe and unclean living conditions, no preventive medicine, etc (might need to scroll down about half the page on the first link to see the graphs):

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/dailynews/November2002/Vax&Disease7.htm

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/decline1.html

Ok, I'll stop ranting! LOL

JeanettePNP, MSN, RN, NP · Feb 5, 2006

There is aborted fetal tissues used in some vaccines,

I agree with most of what you posted but I'm very skeptical about this part. Isn't that illegal at the moment? That's one thing that I don't like about the anti-vaxx literature. They'd be much more successful at presenting their cause if they stayed away from the hysterical tone and anything that can't be backed up with evidence. There are enough good reasons to rethink mandatory vaccinations without resorting to yellow journalism.

marilynmom, LPN, NP · Feb 5, 2006

I agree with most of what you posted but I'm very skeptical about this part. Isn't that illegal at the moment? QUOTE]
No it is not. It is listed on the package insert as human diploid cell culture (which is not the same as the HeLa line from the women who died of cancer).
The new chicken pox vaccine made by Merck Frosst Pharmaceuticals is grown on the MRC-5 cell line derived from the normal lung tissue of a 14-week-old male fetus aborted "for psychiatric reasons." So are the polio and hepatitis A vaccines. The rubella virus in the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) three-in-one shot is grown on the WI-38 cell line-developed in 1961 from an aborted three-month-old female fetus.
Here is a link for package inserts and ingredients:
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/pack.html
The WI-38, MRC-5 and other stem cell lines do not require additional abortions to sustain the cell lines, nor to produce additional batches of vaccine. Fetal cells themselves are not ingredients of the vaccines (sorry, I should have been more clear in my post above about this, my bad), they are cultured on them and for some people that is not cool. I myself am pro-choice but for some who are pro-life this is an issue (and some, if not a majority, may not be aware of this). So for me personally, I dont so much have an issue of this (like I do with mercury, aluminum, etc), but I think everyone should be informed and make those decisions for themselves.
Here is something about the rubella vax and catholics in particular on the CDC website about choosing the vax and the abortied fetal cells used in the vaccine, since many Catholics are pro-choice and oviously might have conflicts with using a vaccine cultured on aborted fetal cells:
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/gen/cathnews.htm
Following is the information on each vaccine, its clinical name and the pharmaceutical company producing them.
CHICKENPOX: VARIVAX/VARICELLA
Uses both MRC-5 and WI-38 human cell lines and is produced by Merck & Co.
HEPATITIS-A: "HAVRIX", "VAQTA"
Uses MRC-5 human cell lines and is produced by SmithKline Beecham and Merck & Co.
HEPATITIS A-B: "TWINRIX"
New combo vaccine uses MRC-5 human cell lines and is produced by SmithKline Beecham (NOTE: Hepatitis-B alone is NOT "tainted.")
RUBELLA: MERUVAX, MMR
Uses WI-38 human cell lines and is produced by Merck & Co. NOTE: MMR PROVIDES SIMULTANEOUS VACCINATION FOR MEASLES-MUMPS-RUBELLA. ANY VACCINE WHICH COMBINES WITH RUBELLA, IE, RUBELLA-MUMPS, (BIAVAX) RUBELLA-MEASLES (MR-VAX) USES THE SAME ABORTED FETAL CELLS. MERUVAX IMMUNIZES FOR RUBELLA ONLY.
OTHER "TAINTED" VACCINES
There are some vaccines that have been manufactured from these same aborted fetal cell lines, (MRC-5 and WI-38), however there are also alternative sources used in their production that do not come from abortion. Following is the information on each vaccine, its clinical name, the alternative "untainted" source and the pharmaceuticals producing them.
- MUMPS
- POLIO
- RABIES
Following is the information on each vaccine, its clinical name, the alternative "untainted" source and the pharmaceuticals producing them.
MUMPS
MUMPSVAX (UNTAINTED) Merck & Co.: Uses the cell cultures of a chicken embryo. 1-800 422-9675
MEASLES
ATTENUVAX (UNTAINTED) Merck & Co: Uses the cell cultures of a chicken embryo. 1-800 422-9675
POLIO
POLIOVAX (TAINTED) Aventis-Pasteur: Uses MRC-5 human cell line.
IPOL (UNTAINTED) Aventis-Pasteur/Connaught: Uses monkey kidney cells. 1-800-822-2463
ORIMUNE (Oral Dosage - Untainted) Aventis-Pasteur/Connaught: Uses monkey kidney cells. 1-800-822-2463
RABIES
IMOVAX (TAINTED) Aventis-Pasteur/Connaught: Uses MRC-5 human cell line.
RabAvert (UNTAINTED) Chiron Inc.: Uses chick embryo. 1-800 244-7668 (Pacific Time)
Your doctor can order the untainted versions by calling the 800 numbers listed above. They are all available in single dosage.

marilynmom, LPN, NP · Feb 5, 2006

I guess my main concern with vaccines is that people blindly use them and are not informed and educated about what is in them, the risks, etc I just wanted to make that clear. I would not personally associate myself with the anti-vax camp and of course I dont align up with the pro-vax camp either, I find myself in the middle.

Like for me, I am debating whether or not to get the HepB vaccine series. For most healthy adults (90% I think from the CDC website) recover completely and have lifelong immunity frm HepB--5% become lifelong carriers. Other countries have stopped using HepB because they do believe (unlike US) that there is or might be a link btwn HepB vax and autoimmune disorders (though rare am I willing to take that risk, especially when autoimmune disorders run in my family? I might be more suseptable).

So I have educated myself about the risks vs benefits of thos vaccine. I am not anti-vax, but people simply do not educate themselves about any of it! They give all newborns HepB (and sorry but unless they are born to HepB+ mothers, the newborn is a drug user or having unprotected sex what is the point? Especially when many studies show the vaccine only lasts for 7 years or so is it really protecting teenagers from contracting HepB? Would it be better to postpone this vax until they are teenagers or another high risk group?). I'm still educating myself on this one :)