Ever work with people who talk about church all the time?

duskyjewel · Sep 11, 2014

You really should provide a source if you're going to post bigotry like that, because right now, those ARE your words.

macenroe · Sep 11, 2014

Disclaimer (not my words)
Schizophrenia can be triggered by a variety of environmental factors, including significant stress, intensely emotional situations, and disturbing or uncomfortable experiences. It is possible that religion itself may be a trigger for schizophrenia; religious imagery is often very grandiose, and defies commonly held beliefs of what is realistic and natural in the world. Experiencing an intense religious experience may trigger a psychotic episode in those who are vulnerable to them, because religion often requires a believer to suspend their usual idea of what is possible and impossible. This could potentially lead to a psychotic episode due to the shift in realistic thinking; a sufferer may believe that they themselves are religious deities or Messiahs, or that God himself is speaking to the individual. It has been shown that those with schizophrenia who suffer from religious delusions are more religious than those who do not suffer from these delusions. It has also been shown that those who suffer from religious delusions are less likely to continue long-term treatment.

This sounds like it was taken directly from Wilkapedia. If it was, Wilkapedia is not known as a very reliable source of information.

Schizophrenia is a illness that affects the brain and can be caused by genetics. I doubt that it is caused by religion. That would be like saying that Alzheimer's disease is caused by religion.

duskyjewel · Sep 11, 2014

Yes, you're right, I just looked it up and that is quoted from Wikipedia. Honestly, liberated, that's your source? A website that can literally be edited by anyone and skewed to reflect whatever axe they have to grind? Do you have no intellectual integrity at all? That's just sad, that you would use that as if it were reliable or meant anything.

You like it because it confirms your bias. But beyond that, it means nothing.

Stephalump · Sep 11, 2014

This sounds like it was taken directly from Wilkapedia. If it was, Wilkapedia is not known as a very reliable source of information.
Schizophrenia is a illness that affects the brain and can be caused by genetics. I doubt that it is caused by religion. That would be like saying that Alzheimer's disease is caused by religion.

It didn't necessarily say that religion causes schizophrenia. It said it can be a trigger - meaning the person already has schizophrenia , which I see as 100% plausible if the person is the hyper-religious type. It's not necessarily the fault of religion, just a disease that's already there that often involves magical thinking/hallucinations/delusions.

I'd think that someone who hears voices and has the deeply rooted belief that god or demons could speak to you would be more likely to attribute and form those voices/delusions around that idea. Once those are in place, an intense religious experience could be a trigger. I don't know.

Personally, many of my patients go to church on Sundays and I've yet to see anyone come back more acutely psychotic, but I'm sure the services are pretty mellow.

duskyjewel · Sep 11, 2014

5 reasons atheists shouldn't call religion a mental illness

While this discussion is worthy of lengthy consideration, I consulted with two atheist activists and compiled five reasons atheists should avoid this problematic parallel:

1. Even if well-intended, the equation fails

I hope that most atheists who claim religion is a mental illness don't intend it as an insult, and instead have a confused understanding of mental illness or religion. Either way, the truth is that religion isn't a form of mental illness.

"Religion and mental illness are different psychological processes," said atheist and mental health advocate Miri Mogilevsky in a recent email exchange. "[Religious beliefs may] stem from cognitive processes that are essentially adaptive, such as looking for patterns and feeling like a part of something larger than oneself."

In The Belief Instinct, Jesse Bering also argues that religious belief is adaptive. Mental illnesses, on the other hand, clearly reflect maladaptive processes.

"People who cannot leave the house without having a panic attack or who feel a compulsion to wash their hands hundreds of times a day are experiencing symptoms that interfere with their ability to go about their lives," Mogilevsky said. "Except in extreme cases, religion does not operate this way."

Simply put: You may find religious beliefs irrational, but that doesn't mean they're a manifestation of mental illness.

2. Mental illness is not an insult

Surely not all atheists who claim religion is a mental illness do so to insult believers, but some do. This should go without saying, but it's vital: Mental illness should never be wielded as an insult, particularly because people with mental illness face widespread stigma.

"Equating religion with mental illness is harmful for a number of reasons," said Mogilevsky, who will soon launch a secular mental health support group. "When done to make fun of or put down religion, it also puts down people struggling with [mental illness]."

Calling religion a form of mental illness as a way to insult believers is not only crude and wrong--it also contributes to a culture that marginalizes people with mental illness and defines them solely by their illness. Atheists, agnostics, and Humanists should actively promote dignity for all people and strive to challenge dehumanization, rather than contribute to it.

3. Religion is often associated with wellbeing

Not only is religion not a form of mental illness--it's actually associated with wellbeing in the U.S.

"Religion is many things--a famously indefinable concept--but for our purposes we can use the word to refer to supernatural belief systems and institutions built around them," said David Yaden, a researcher at The University of Pennsylvania's Positive Psychology Center who works in collaboration with UPenn's Center for Cognitive Neuroscience, in a recent email exchange. "If that is our definition, religion absolutely cannot be [categorized] as a mental illness."

"In fact, empirical evidence sometimes points to the opposite conclusion," Yaden said, citing the work of Dr. Ken Pargament. "When it comes to facilitating mental health, empirical data demonstrates that religious people have more positive emotion, more meaning in life, more life satisfaction, cope better with trauma, are more physically healthy, are more altruistic and socially connected, and are not diagnosed with mental illness more than other people."

While there are a number of explanations for these correlations--such as the fact that nonreligious people often lack access to the kinds of resources that religious communities offer--it's a bit ironic to call religion a mental illness when it is in fact often associated with wellbeing.

4. This parallel distracts us from trying to understand and learn from religion

"Calling religion a mental illness keeps us from asking serious questions about what actually does attract people to religion," said Mogilevsky, who recently published a lengthy piece challenging atheists who call religion a mental illness. "[it's] a convenient way to avoid thinking about what we could actually be doing to make the secular community more welcoming and inclusive, and what sorts of resources we are lacking that people can find in religious communities."

Yaden, who recently began working as an assistant chaplain for the Humanist Chaplaincy at Rutgers, shares this concern.

"Secular society still has a lot to learn from how effective religion can be at fostering mental health," said Yaden. "And as a society based on secular values, we need to be very careful with what we choose to pathologize. True liberty and freedom include the right to believe what one will without the fear of being labeled 'ill.'"

Indeed. Atheists would do well to remember this, as this false diagnosis also gets turned back around at us.

5. Atheists and theists share in the challenges of being human

There is a great deal of suffering in the world, and atheists and theists share in it. Rather than making unfair cheap shots--especially at the expense of a marginalized group of people that includes some atheists--we should express compassion for people who have experiences that differ from our own and seek to understand them. And, importantly, we have more in common than it may seem.

"Claiming that religion is a mental illness obscures the fact that we all--yes, atheists too--regularly engage in irrational thinking," said Mogilevsky. "If thinking irrationally is a mental illness, then we are all mentally ill, and the term loses its meaning. As a survivor of mental illness myself, I think we should save that term for situations in which people are truly suffering and having trouble going about their lives."

From: http://chrisstedman.religionnews.com/2014/02/24/5-reasons-atheists-shouldnt-call-religion-mental-illness/

macawake, MSN · Sep 11, 2014

Disclaimer (not my words)
Schizophrenia can be triggered by a variety of environmental factors, including significant stress, intensely emotional situations, and disturbing or uncomfortable experiences. It is possible that religion itself may be a trigger for schizophrenia; religious imagery is often very grandiose, and defies commonly held beliefs of what is realistic and natural in the world. Experiencing an intense religious experience may trigger a psychotic episode in those who are vulnerable to them, because religion often requires a believer to suspend their usual idea of what is possible and impossible. This could potentially lead to a psychotic episode due to the shift in realistic thinking; a sufferer may believe that they themselves are religious deities or Messiahs, or that God himself is speaking to the individual. It has been shown that those with schizophrenia who suffer from religious delusions are more religious than those who do not suffer from these delusions. It has also been shown that those who suffer from religious delusions are less likely to continue long-term treatment.

Oh, the irony. Following directly after BrandonLPN’s post saying that intent is important (which I agree wholeheartedly with), you post this gem. What were you hoping to achieve by posting it, what was your intent? Also, I believe it’s customary to include the source when you post someone else’s words.

Being an atheist I’ve been told more than once, that I’ll burn in Hades for all eternity.

This prediction doesn’t frighten me, simply because I don’t believe a place like that exists. However it has on occasion angered me, because it’s a mean-spirited thing to say.

So is telling a theist that they are delusional or that their beliefs equate mental illness.

I don’t see how a message like that can be conveyed with a kind, helpful intent. I think that it’s meant to hurt or ridicule another person’s beliefs. Not that I personally believe that mental illness is a valid insult, any more than a fractured femur or failing kidneys are. They are all illnesses (or injuries) and shouldn’t be used to try to score points in an argument.

Just as I expect a believer to respect my standpoint, I respect that they have different beliefs. Why is it so hard to be civil to and respectful of others? Why not let people believe what they do in peace? The only time, as I’ve mentioned earlier, I have a problem with religious beliefs is when someone tries to force theirs on me. The rest of the time I have no need or inclination to broadcast my beliefs, they’re private.

Stephalump · Sep 11, 2014

This is a discussion forum. The intent is (usually) to put one's opinion out there and (theoretically) have a discussion about it.

I'm so much in the psych bubble right now that if didn't even occur to me that the quote was out of left field to equate mental illness and religion - and I don't know the actual intent of the author - but the wiki did not equate the two. It brought up a theory that should be perfectly discussable without personal insult.

liberated847 · Sep 11, 2014

You really should provide a source if you're going to post bigotry like that, because right now, those ARE your words.

There have fun

"Schizophrenia". A.D.A.M,.

van Os, J; Kapur, S (2009-08-22). "Schizophrenia.". Lancet 374 (9690): 635-45. doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(09)60995-8. PMID 19700006.

Picchioni, MM; Murray, RM (2007-07-14). "Schizophrenia.". BMJ (Clinical research ed.) 335 (7610): 91-5. doi:10.1136/bmj.39227.616447.BE. PMC 1914490. PMID 17626963.

van Os, J; Kapur, S (2009-08-22). "Schizophrenia.". Lancet 374 (9690): 635-45. doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(09)60995-8. PMID 19700006.

Siddle, Ronald; Haddock, Gillian, Tarrier, Nicholas, Faragher, E. Brian (1 March 2002). "Religious delusions in patients admitted to hospital with schizophrenia". Social Psychiatry and Psychiatric Epidemiology 37 (3): 130-138. doi:10.1007/s001270200005. PMID 11990010.

Mohr, Sylvia; Borras, Laurence, Betrisey, Carine, Pierre-Yves, Brandt, Gilliéron, Christiane, Huguelet, Philippe (1 June 2010). "Delusions with Religious Content in Patients with Psychosis: How They Interact with Spiritual Coping". Psychiatry: Interpersonal and Biological Processes 73 (2): 158-172. doi:10.1521/psyc.2010.73.2.158.

Suhail, Kausar; Ghauri, Shabnam (1 April 2010). "Phenomenology of delusions and hallucinations in schizophrenia by religious convictions". Mental Health, Religion & Culture 13 (3): 245-259. doi:10.1080/13674670903313722.

Siddle, R; Haddock, G; Tarrier, N; Faragher, EB (March 2002). "Religious delusions in patients admitted to hospital with schizophrenia.". Social psychiatry and psychiatric epidemiology 37 (3): 130-8. doi:10.1007/s001270200005. PMID 11990010.

Siddle, Ronald; Haddock, Gillian, Tarrier, Nicholas, Faragher, E. Brian (1 November 2002). "The validation of a religiosity measure for individuals with schizophrenia". Mental Health, Religion & Culture 5 (3): 267-284. doi:10.1080/13674670210130027.

Mohr, S.; Brandt, P.-Y., Borras, L., Gillieron, C., Huguelet, P. (1 November 2006). "Toward an Integration of Spirituality and Religiousness Into the Psychosocial Dimension of Schizophrenia". American Journal of Psychiatry 163 (11): 1952-1959. doi:10.1176/appi.ajp.163.11.1952.

Danbolt, Lars J.; M⊘ller, Paul, Lien, Lars, Hestad, Knut A. (31 March 2011). "The Personal Significance of Religiousness and Spirituality in Patients With Schizophrenia". International Journal for the Psychology of Religion 21 (2): 145-158. doi:10.1080/10508619.2011.557009.

Mohr, S; Huguelet P. "The relationship between schizophrenia and religion and its implications for care". Swiss Medical Weekly.

Mohr, Sylvia; Borras, Laurence, Rieben, Isabelle, Betrisey, Carine, Gillieron, Christiane, Brandt, Pierre-Yves, Perroud, Nader, Huguelet, Philippe (11 October 2009). "Evolution of spirituality and religiousness in chronic schizophrenia or schizo-affective disorders: a 3-years follow-up study". Social Psychiatry and Psychiatric Epidemiology 45 (11): 1095-1103. doi:10.1007/s00127-009-0151-0.

liberated847 · Sep 11, 2014

Agree Wikipedia is not a reliable source but what about the articles used there to support their commentary? I state these were not my words, I should have posted the source. Here's some of the papers cited