Euthanasia/Spirituality

Dr. Kate, BSN, RN · Aug 7, 2002

Assisted suicide? It isn't really a matter of belief, it happens. Do I agree with it? No. Do I understand why some people think/feel there is no other answer? I think I do. Do I approve? Not really. Could I do it? No and had to tell my best friend that.

Having said that, I believe that death is an inevitable part of life. That as far as humanly possible it should not entail mental or physical suffering. We have the means to relieve most pain and have an obligation to do so.

I have a great deal of faith in people's ability to make meanigful decisions for themselves regarding the end of life. I do not trust others (physicians, some family members, etc.) to make those decisions.

We had a similar discussion in my most recent new grad class. As a group they were adamant they could not continue to give MS to someone whose respirations were

The other side? Don't know. An afterlife? Yes. Will it be what I expect? I doubt it, but who knows?

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Aug 7, 2002

Howdy yall

from deep in the heat of texas

I hope it has a good golf course there

sbic56, BSN, RN · Aug 7, 2002

OK, now. We all are firm in what we are going to believe. The debate on controversal topics like this brings out some strong emotion, but do we have to flame one another? Hate to sound like the camp councilor, but I hate to see a good debate go to sh*t again. No one really knows what goes on after death, so let's not trash each other for our individual beliefs.

ritataillefer...I like your thinking...good points made.

mario_ragucci · Aug 8, 2002

tee it up mom, you are false because, if you assert I need help, and not tell me what help I need, you are missing easy chip-shots. Before I throw you off the green, please tell me what help I need, or apologize here, for your slanderous and unprovoked attempt to harm my name. I ain't taking no birdies from you, so leave me alone :-)

sjoe · Aug 8, 2002

Completely in favor of assisted suicide (or unassisted, for that matter). Who has the right to trump someone else's decision about when to get off the merry-go-round? We presently intervene against patients' wishes all the time by prolonging their deaths (at least so long as their insurance holds out), which is little more than imprisonment and torture, IMHO, no matter how we rationalize it to ourselves.

As for their being a light to which one goes after dying, that is true. Don't know about other "previously departed" spirits being there to welcome one, though, since I've never run into them myself.

BBelle · Aug 8, 2002

I too am in favor of assisted suicide provided the patient is terminal and there is absolutely no hope of recovery.

I know if it were me I would live my life to the fullest until I could no longer go to the bathroom on my own, cloth myself, feed myself, or bathe myself. I would not want to become a burden on my family. But this is my opinion. Everyone has the right to decide for themselves what is right for their situation.

And yes I firmly believe in the Other Side. The white light, seeing spirits, etc. It's a great feeling to be visited by a loved one.

waicurn · Aug 8, 2002

until i could no longer go to the bathroom on my own, cloth myself, feed myself, or bathe myself.

hmmm... i was like that when i was borned.... sure glad my mommy didn't put me out of my misery then

but seriously, i work at a hospice before and i saw how affective we can help teiminally ill folks ease their pain, freeing them to put closure to their lives.

i don't think we should actively "help" people die for the same reason why none of us would help a non-terminally illed, depressed, suicidel patient die

retorical questions for you... would you help a terminally illed patient with no motivation to live who does not have much pain to kill himself? how about some anti-depressant or ect first? or would that be too expensive to invest in somebody "who's going to die anyway"

when we say we "believe in assistive suicide," and feel it's out of the goodness of our heart, may be we could step back and re-evaluate how we value end of life and how we lable those who labeled themselves "useless" and should allowed to "choose" to die.

sbic56, BSN, RN · Aug 9, 2002

BBelle

I agree with your post 100%. When I can no longer enjoy life, it is time for it to end.

I think hospice is a great alternative for those who feel differently than I do; just isn't for me.

BBelle · Aug 9, 2002

Superman: I would only listen to and agree with a patient who wanted to do that.

I, for one, would want to die while I still had my dignity and was still able to do things for myself. Yes I'm glad our mommies were there for us. But the majority of the older generation have no families left and if they do the families aren't that involved with their care and they put them in nursing homes. To me that would be a depressing way to go. And yes some families love their illed ones enough to provide hospice care for them, but in reality the majority don't.

I'm just speaking for myself when I say that, when my time comes I choose to die with dignity. I don't want a stranger having to bathe me or wipe my butt clean, because I am too weak to do it. All I am saying (if it were me in a terminal situation)is what is the point of living if I won't be able to enjoy it and do things for myself as I am able to do now. I don't want to be in a situation where I am comatosed and my loved ones are faced with a decision of wheather to pull the plug or not.(if I were terminally ill with no hope of recovery) Just pull the **** thing and let me go.

Some people, who are terminal whith no hope of recovery, want to fight death til the end and that is Ok, that is their choice, but like sbic56 said ,"just isn't for me."

waicurn · Aug 9, 2002

you know... from reading this thread, I think peole's definitions of "assisted suicide" are all different. For example, I say I don't agree with "assisted suicide," but I am perfectly fine with "pulling the plug" because the way I see it, vent and heart/lung machines are only good in cases of surgeries and for short-term used only, which includes perfusing the organs for donation (little plug for organ donations! ) I will even go as far as saying that I'm in relative agreement with someone if he or she refuses gavage feeding when unable to eat "normally."

When I think of "assisted suicide" I think of leathal injection. Doctors giving a high dose of... I don't know... whatever they use to end an "unhappy life." That's what I don't agree with. The same psych treatment we offer our unhappy 20 years olds should be equally available to the unhappy, ill elderlies.

Good discussion though.

sbic56, BSN, RN · Aug 9, 2002

"The same psych treatment we offer our unhappy 20 years olds should be equally available to the unhappy, ill elderlies."

Sure it should. I don't think anyone disagrees with that statement. Difference is, the odds are much greater that the quality of life one is trying to regain, is much more likely to be obtained in the depressed 20 year old than the debilitated and dying patient, age not being a factor. I am talking about quality of life; if the dying patient truly believes there is none, it should be his right to end his life, if that is his wish. Being ready to die doesn't always indicate a psych problem.

waicurn · Aug 9, 2002

Hi Sbic56, BBelle and everyone, I'm glad we are having a nice discussion about this topic. It's good to stretch like this once in a while. :)

Ok, I think we pretty much agree on 95% of this stuff... and the fork occurs at the point of "Being ready to die." My position is that with the help of DNAR, Living Will, Hospice, Doc and nurses who are liberal on the pain management...etc., the patient then, can maintain their "dignity" by dying without having to resort to "kill themselves" and nurses and doctors having to deliver death.