I need your input on this!

  1. Greetings, All:

    Today I received an email from Ward James, RN, who represents NAIN, (National Association for Independent Nurses). I had requested information regarding membership to this organization. He responded back to me that LPNs are not accepted into NAIN unless they are, "....in the RN program".

    Too bad. Their loss.

    My question to you is this: should I, after 30 years of nursing experience and 8 years as a successful nursing entrepreneur, go back to RN school so that I can be recognized as a viable and worthy enough person to warrent membership into this association? Should ANY LPN/LVN who manages their own nursing enterprise be required to do this?

    Have my contributions to this Forum been anything less than knowledgeable and helpful? And when I contribute to this Forum, do any of you disregard my posts because I am an LPN?

    I want to hear from you folks. I really need to know what you think.

    Lois Jean
  2. Visit LoisJean profile page

    About LoisJean

    Joined: May '01; Posts: 334; Likes: 25
    LPN; Self Employed


  3. by   renerian
    I think it is a slap in the face.......

  4. by   nurseT
    LoisJean, Congrats on your success. If your bus is doing well, then don't be concerned about labels. Having your RN will allow you to step into other areas, but if you don't need it , who cares? nurseT
  5. by   hoolahan
    His Loss!! How sad he cannot see the forrest through the trees!!! Your contributions here are priceless!!!

    I say, take the moeny it would have cost you for the membership, and buy yourself something really nice!!!

    I hope that your post will steer business away from him and HIS enterprise. What would YOU get out of this membership anyway??

    I would only go back to RN school if it is something YOU wanted to do. You are successful already. None of your patient's seem to find you lacking in anyway, nor do we. If you do go back, you must realize how the clinicals and homework and papers and reasearch would take time away from your business, and result in a loss of income. Why do it them?? Not worth it. If you go back for anything, go for a business degree!

    I love ya girl, and ...see my signature line!!! :kiss
  6. by   hoolahan
    Another thought LJ, I wouldn't do this myself, since I would not expose your identity w/o your consent, but why not invite the illustrious and self-important Mr. James to respond on this thread??
  7. by   LoisJean
    Just what I was thinking, Linda! Thanks all for the vote of confidence! The guy caught me after a whopping busy day--4 new referrals and an offer from an orthopaedic doc to subcontract with his PC!! I think I was p*$$ed, more than offended. But, yes Hoolie, I am going to invite him to peruse this Forum Site.

    Lois Jean
  8. by   sunnygirl272
    what a tremendous slap in the face for all LPNs....
  9. by   nightingale
    Hi Lois Jean:

    Sorry I have not responded sooner. I am out of town on a mini travel assignment.

    LJ, you rock. ANY business who labels you as not being qualified.. well... good thing I already knew what limiting help you can get from NAIN.

    I chose National Nurses in Business Association. Try speaking with the President. I think you will be pleased with the way the business promotes all nurses. If it is anydiffernt then that let me know and I will not renew my membership.

    In all things, great and SMALL... consider the source.


  10. by   melissa24
    Originally posted by LoisJean
    Greetings, All:

    Today I received an email from Ward James, RN, who represents NAIN, (National Association for Independent Nurses). I had requested information regarding membership to this organization. He responded back to me that LPNs are not accepted into NAIN unless they are, "....in the RN program".

    Too bad. Their loss.

    You are right. It is their loss. I'm glad to hear about all of your successes. If you do not feel you need to have an RN after your name, then why do it? Maybe they should change their name to National Association for Independent Registered Nurses.
  11. by   LoisJean
    You are so right! I e-mailed Pat Bemis, RN, CEO, of the NNBA and received back from her a very warm welcome. To paraphrase her, she told me that a "nurse is a nurse". The NNBA welcomes ALL nurses into their membership community and so I will not hesitate one more second--I'm sending in my fee for membership.

    This becomes a very important topic for discussion and it needs to be discussed here because any nurse who is experiencing the burning desire for personal and professional freedom has got to first cement the understanding into the heart that she/he has absolute permission to do so...

    By law, in this country, I am given the perrogitive as a citizen, to form any business and maintain that business using acceptable guidelines which are recognized by the State I live in. (Although those guidelines are not requirements written in stone). When I set up my legal business name with my County Clerk, I was also setting up an 'IMPLIED' agreement with my State and with the Federal Government. My business successes directly contribute to the welfare of both of these entities through the business taxes which I pay and the service which I perform. Because any return I get goes back into my business, I, in essence am impacting government function and public welfare.

    Now, as a nurse, the business I have developed, by myself, deals directly with community health. While what I do may not seem like such a big deal on the outside, I know that cost savings in terms of prevention is a big deal on the inside of things. Independent nurses, in my estimation, offer the greater degree of preventive care and teaching to communities at large and, with great success.

    Why? Because we have the wonderful freedom to set up and maintain our practices in an autonomous manner. We are not bound by the stiff rules and regulations which restrict nurses from practicing in a manner which is both satisfying and productive. We are not, for the most part, bound by insurance regulations which decide how often a nurse will visit, or how the nurse will develop her plan of care. While we follow the protocols of good nursing practice, keep within our scope of practice as dictated by our respective BON, we still can enjoy a great measure of freedom in the delivery of our speciality to those who require it.

    The Independent Nurse offers a tremendous SUPPLY of product, (expertise), in direct relationship to the DEMAND, for that product. Let me tell you- it doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that, in a very short time the demands of an ever increasing aging public will be for the kind of care which is best delivered by the Independent Nurse. This is my generation that is aging--and believe me, my generation will not put up much longer with the kind of shafting we are now seeing in regard to health care delivery- including the "nursing shortage" within the hospital and Home Health Care Agency settings--(which, by the way, I do not foresee improving anytime in the near future).

    The RN who makes a firm decision to go out on her own is going to need help at some point. I predict that the need for Independent Private Duty Nurses will skyrocket, that health insurers will see this as cost containing and provide adequate reimbusement- (sadly, along with new rules and regs), and I predict that the subcontracting of LPNs will increase, also, as time goes on, and RNs find they need help. I also believe that, like with med students, business classes will be offered to the nursing student as part of the curriculum.

    My Nurse Practice Act tells me that I may not do what I do without RN 'supervision', although I interpret that as, 'ought not'. It is for that reason that I PAY an RN a retainer each month to satisfy this requirement. Christine is very good at foot care but she's a Hospice Nurse at heart. So, she works full time Hospice and about once a year goes with me to a clinic and checks off the appropriate boxes on the OBSERVANCE FORM, (which I developed, by the way). If I ever decide to EMPLOY or SUBCONTRACT an LPN, Christine will be her 'supervisor'...because that's what I pay her to do on a retainer basis. To quell any misconception, Christine SUBCONTRACTS her expertise and her title to my business and receives a fee for her service.

    For any LPN who wants to go into her own business, I heartily recommend you put an RN on retainer, if possible, regardless if your State BON and the type of nursing you are doing requires it; and for RNs who go into business, I heartily recommend that you consider the LPN, (who, as we have already agreed, is a nurse), as a subcontracting agent to your business when you are ready.

    Like any good enterprise, I do review things, usually once a year, adding or deleting. A captian who does not perform routine inspections on his boat will go down with his ship. When Christine and I get together, I give her an update and copies of changes. But, don't misunderstand me..it is MY business...I call the shots and ultimately decide what or what not will be done.

    I cannot count the number of RNs who are instrumental in the ongoing success of my business. These are nurses who know me from past work experience, and nurses who don't know me from Adam. They send referrals to me on a regular basis. They provide me with off-the-cuff suggestions, answer questions I have about new treatments, meds, wound care products, etc., provide me with much needed emotional support and when some of us get together for our 'impromptu parties', the glow can be seen all the way South to Florida!

    In my opinion there is no substitute for the RN/LPN-LVN unit in any care setting. Together we represent a knowledge and expertise base which is incomparable. Health care facilities are going to fall and fail precisely because this uniteing of two nursing specialities has gone by the way-side, for the most part. I think that the coming together of these two nursing professions will prove invaluable in the area of Nurse Entrepreneurs.

    We are trailblazers--so let's go blaze a trail for others!!

    Lois Jean
  12. by   rncountry
    LoisJean, Great for you! After speaking with you on the phone I hope you know that I think the idea that only an RN is a nurse is a bunch of bunk. Several times I have been all ready to join the ANA through the Michigan Nurse Association, but everytime I end up not doing it. Two reasons. First I just do not feel they are using the political influence that they should have, and secondly because the ANA will not represent LPN's. Considering LPNs are dealing with the same issues that RNs are I see this as foolish. It maintains a rift in nursing that should instead be healed. It is difficult at best to be able to impact healthcare as nurses when there are people out there that do things that split nurses among ourselves. In many ways it is an inability to not see the resources right in front of you. Imagine what a force nurses could be if all nurses were united. As someone said, Mr. James has the unfortunate inability to see the forest for the trees. I took a look at that site too, and this was my take. The only way I could much information was to join, but how do I know that this is a worthwhile association if I can't get the information first? I felt like this guy was more interested in what money he could get than in actually helping nurses become independent. Decided it was not worth my time. The National Nurses in Business Association on the other hand was a wealth of information. Wrote to Pat Bemis, received a prompt reply and information that should prove to be worthwhile. And currently I am not a member, though have every intention on becoming one.
    As my dad used to say, Onward and Upward!
  13. by   JNJ
    I do belong to NAIN, although I was already an independent RN when I joined. I have posted the allnurses discussion about NAINs policy toward LVNsLPNs. I have also posted that there are LVNs billing Medi-Cal as independent providers.

    There have been few responses to my posts and those were mild and generally inclusive; I believe most of us at NAIN are too busy (and fulfilled) running our own businesses to have strong views about the LVN subject.

    Posters here have asked how can they know if it is going to be valuable to individuals to join NAIN. I access the nurses' forum almost as often as I access here and I have a few comments to offer.

    The forum includes almost no gossip, jokes, fun stuff or 'greetings' type posts. It is being used as a tool for independents to network and share real life business and professional information. The information posted tends to be very direct, very factual - hard core stuff to the still difficult business of being an independent RN. We do also share disappointments and encourage one another.

    The principle seems to be (although not overtly stated) that as more nurses blaze the independent trail, it becomes less difficult for others to follow. Most nurses posting at NAIN have a specific piece of information to impart to others or a question to be answered. My impression is that most NAIN members were already very serious about, and part way into independence before joining.

    There is a booklet provided on joining which details some of the steps toward independence in a general way. Each state has slightly different issues for independent nurses (no State Nurse Practice Act disallows independence, by the way).

    I'm sorry you've had a poor experience with NAIN. There are some academic organizations that won't accept me because I don't hold the USA qualication - I hold the UK version instead. Just a small rule; it does not need to aggravate your life.

    Empower ourselves!
  14. by   Agnus
    I joined NAIN found it unsuupportive. I found a lot of attitude comming from ADN nurses on thier forum and in thier booklet. I posted several times to the forum and received not one useful answer.

    I discovered NNBA later and Found Pat Bemis was genuinly careing and interested about what I was doing. Lots of help, information, and support.

    Gess who I will renew with.
    NAIN was happy to take my money but did not deliver anything useful.

    My dear, if you are a nurse and have a business you belong in NNBA. I have to question the legitmacy of the other org. which seem self serving of those collecting our membership$$

    If they are tooo bussy with their fablous businesses to support anyone else then why have such an org. unless it is just one more way to line thier own pockets. It's like the guy who sells books on how to make a million and the only thing he tells you is to sell books on how to make a million because that is the way he makes money.

    There is not even a status benefit in NAIN. He!!, they tell you up front they don't even want thier names on the letter head. Because a client hospital might not contract with them if they seem to support other nurses.
    Last edit by Agnus on Jan 25, '03