EMS-what's their problem?

CCL"Babe", BSN, RN · Nov 5, 2003

Having been in EMS, I can tell you that is easy to develop an attitude. As a pre-hospital RN I have had nurses refuse to give or receive report from me, because I worked on an ambulance.

Many nurses and other health care workers think of you as "ambulance drivers". Most people never look at your creditals, name badge what ever. Many people refuse you that common courtesy of giving or taking patient reports. Yes, some EMS are ignorant, cockey, or not up to par. The majority though are better educated than you might think, good people who would respond well to common good manners and politeness.

I know we all have bad days. I hope things go better for you.

Brownms46 · Nov 5, 2003

Good post CCL"Babe"! You know it never entered my mind, that anyone would give anyone with EMS a hard time. I have never seen this before, and hopefully not ever. Yes I have seen some arrognant ones, but not to the point of not caring about the pt. At least not yet!

MrsWampthang, BSN, RN · Nov 5, 2003

From the EMS point of view, I can tell you that EMS personel get frustrated when they are called to an LTC to pick up Grandma because she has a decline in condition, she is 98 years old, and a DNR. Or when EMS is there trying to work a code and the charge nurse comes in and tells them to "get the patient out of here!" Or when EMS picks up a patient and can't find anyone to tell them what is going on with the patient, or why EMS was called, they just get a 15 page stack of paperwork shoved at them. Or how about when EMS gets called out at 3 in the morning for an "unresponsive patient" (again a DNR patient.) Or....need I go on?

Just some examples of why EMS staff sometimes "sports a tude"

Pam:)

Brownms46 · Nov 5, 2003

Originally posted by Pamela_g_c
From the EMS point of view, I can tell you that EMS personel get frustrated when they are called to an LTC to pick up Grandma because she has a decline in condition, she is 98 years old, and a DNR. Or when EMS is there trying to work a code and the charge nurse comes in and tells them to "get the patient out of here!" Or when EMS picks up a patient and can't find anyone to tell them what is going on with the patient, or why EMS was called, they just get a 15 page stack of paperwork shoved at them. Or how about when EMS gets called out at 3 in the morning for an "unresponsive patient" (again a DNR patient.) Or....need I go on?
Just some examples of why EMS staff sometimes "sports a tude"

Pam:)

While I agree that it isn't right for EMS to be mistreated, there is also no excuse for being nasty to those who haven't deserved it. Just because your job isn't made any easier d/t ;"some" nurses, don't take it out on all of us, and you're still to be professional, and wear that "tude" somewhere else!

MrsWampthang, BSN, RN · Nov 5, 2003

I told the one today ,if he was half as good as he thought he was ,he wouldn't be riding in the back of the ambulance taking orders he would be a doctor giving orders!!!!! oh!!!!they really piss me off some days. Thanks for leeting me vent!

You have no idea what it takes to get "good enough" to ride in the back of an ambulance so I really feel like you were totally out of line here. To be able to "ride" in the back of an ambulance, you have to first become at least an EMT which is a course that lasts several months, and includes classroom and clinical time. Now that is a basic EMT; if you were to choose to go to further your education it could take almost two years and includes numerous hours of classroom and clinical learning.

Paramedics work under standing orders from the medical director and are basically a rolling ER when it comes to patient care. They have to know their protocols by heart because when they have a patient that is having an acute MI or coding, they don't have time to call in and "get orders" from the recieving facility, they have to know in advance what they need to do. Granted they do work under a doctor's written orders, but that doesn't mean that all they do is "ride in the back of an ambulance and take orders."

Try "riding in the back of ambulance" that the floor is so wet with blood that you slide all over the place when your driver turns a corner; try intubating a patient that is puking all over you, the walls and the floors; try starting an IV while the ambulance is rolling down a country road; try going to pick up a patient and having to literally shovel dog doo-doo out of the way to get to the patient. Try having to stay up for 24 hours straight and make 19 EMS runs in that 24 hours. Again, need I say more?

If EMS people are copping attitudes with you that you truly don't feel is necessary then call their boss and he/she will straighten them out, but consider what I have said here and take that into account the next time one of those EMS people cop an attitude with you. You may be catching them at the end of a very long, stressful shift and this run may just be the last straw for them. Not justifying them, just explaining why they may not be as nice as they should be.

Pam;) :cool:

Pmdc · Nov 5, 2003

Since when did ALL EMS workers become rude? I happen to know many EMS workers who are very friendly, competent, and professional. Many of them are even very good at what they do, and believe it or not, aren't contemplating going to med school. It's possible to be very good at something such as EMS or nursing and not desire to be a doctor.

EMS has its bad apples, but so do nursing homes, hospitals, and any other place you might find people. We definitely don't have the rudeness market cornered.

I've had bad experiences with nurses, physicians, and other paramedics, but I wouldn't categorize all members of their professions as rude people. I guess there are times when we could all use a lesson in how other people should be treated.

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience, but most of the Paramedics I know would have treated you with the utmost respect, but would expect the same in return.

Please don't let this experience determine how you treat the next EMS crew you encounter.

Paramedic, soon to be RN

psychomachia · Nov 5, 2003

sleep deprived writes: "I work long term care andwhen we call for an emergency ,they act as if it's such a problem to come help our resident's."

ME: IF you're truly calling 911 for an emergency, then you should expect prompt, efficient care, but how often has someone (probably not yourself) in a LTC facility called 911 for what is clearly a non-emergent transfer because they didn't want to wait for a "routine transfer" ambulance to arrive hours later as compared to the 5-10 minutes it takes for your local 911 provider to arrive?

This is not to excuse ANYONE'S behavior or "attitude," but being called to transport someone back to the hospital at 3am for a foley re-insert does tend to get old after awhile and it truly is a test of one's patience to be asked to respond as if someone's dying when they clearly aren't.

And to top it off, when you arrive and have someone who WORKS at the facility tell you, "I don't know anything 'cause I just gots here," well, you can see how someone's cork might pop.

sleep deprived writes: "The younger they are the cockier they are!!!!"

ME: Which is why they are probably responding to your LTC. It seems as if a lot of communities like to clump the old folks into the same areas of town, which is why the senior medics have transferred to younger and slower areas, thus leaving the nursing home areas to the young pups with the cocky attitudes.

A lot of medics get into EMS because:

1. Chicks dig the uniform.

2. Lights and sirens are kewl.

3. It's often easier to get hired by a Fire Dept. if you're a medic.

4. Big egos and EMS just go together like beer and burritos.

There is a phase of every medics career where they feel they are being abused by running to the nursing home for the zillionth time to take granny-who-just-won't-die back for another million dollar workup, but most either adapt or move on once they realize that things aren't going to change.

Burnout is common in areas where there is a high call volume coupled with abuse (inappropriate use of 911). Perhaps the problem isn't entirely with the medics who come to your facility?

And please do not take this as an "attack" at why you called 911, your nursing skills, or anything personal. I'm glad you pointed out to Super Medic to check his attitude. Don't worry, when they get to the ER, there's probably a nurse waiting to give them a little grief also...

MrsWampthang, BSN, RN · Nov 5, 2003

A lot of medics get into EMS because:

1. Chicks dig the uniform.

2. Lights and sirens are kewl.

3. It's often easier to get hired by a Fire Dept. if you're a medic.

4. Big egos and EMS just go together like beer and burritos.

:roll :roll

As a female medic I really enjoyed watching all those hot, sweaty, firefighters in their turnout gear!

Plus, I really got a kick out of legally being able to whip around traffic at a high rate of speed!:chuckle

Pam

Brownms46 · Nov 5, 2003

Originally posted by Pamela_g_c
You have no idea what it takes to get "good enough" to ride in the back of an ambulance so I really feel like you were totally out of line here. To be able to "ride" in the back of an ambulance, you have to first become at least an EMT which is a course that lasts several months, and includes classroom and clinical time. Now that is a basic EMT; if you were to choose to go to further your education it could take almost two years and includes numerous hours of classroom and clinical learning.
Paramedics work under standing orders from the medical director and are basically a rolling ER when it comes to patient care. They have to know their protocols by heart because when they have a patient that is having an acute MI or coding, they don't have time to call in and "get orders" from the recieving facility, they have to know in advance what they need to do. Granted they do work under a doctor's written orders, but that doesn't mean that all they do is "ride in the back of an ambulance and take orders."
Try "riding in the back of ambulance" that the floor is so wet with blood that you slide all over the place when your driver turns a corner; try intubating a patient that is puking all over you, the walls and the floors; try starting an IV while the ambulance is rolling down a country road; try going to pick up a patient and having to literally shovel dog doo-doo out of the way to get to the patient. Try having to stay up for 24 hours straight and make 19 EMS runs in that 24 hours. Again, need I say more?
If EMS people are copping attitudes with you that you truly don't feel is necessary then call their boss and he/she will straighten them out, but consider what I have said here and take that into account the next time one of those EMS people cop an attitude with you. You may be catching them at the end of a very long, stressful shift and this run may just be the last straw for them. Not justifying them, just explaining why they may not be as nice as they should be.

Pam;)

I feel this was a justification and if someone can't be professional and deal with the negatives in their profession, then they need to find another one!

I have never had a problem with any EMS at the scene, in an ER or after calling 911 for a home emergency. But I still feel if you can't handle the heat you need to get out of the kitchen! There is NEVER a justification for rudeness!

MrsWampthang, BSN, RN · Nov 5, 2003

As I stated, I wasn't justifying rude attitudes, but trying to explain why a normally nice person would turn into a rude, seemingly insensitive jerk. Course, there are those EMS people (at all levels) that think they are God's gift to EMS and think they can do no wrong and consequently are always jerks. Most people in EMS are truly caring, responsible people however.

We all have instances when we go off on the wrong people at the wrong time and it isn't right, just human. But just because you act like a jerk once in awhile doesn't mean you should quit doing something you love to do. Just means you need to find a better place to vent your frustration or anger the next time.

I guess I get a little sensitive about EMS cuz I used to be "one of them; now as an RN I am "one of those" according to my former partner!:chuckle

And believe me, when I was working as a medic, there were times when a nurse took me down a peg or two. So just remember, what goes around, comes around and the next time that EMS person cops an attitude with you, remember that somewhere, somehow, someone is going to turn around and knock the props out from under them and their high horse attitude! :roll

Pam

Tink RN · Nov 6, 2003

In defense of the LTC nurses calling 911 for a 90 year old DNR patient ... first of all, DNR does not mean "Do not treat". As an ER nurse, I am surprised I continue to maintain this mentality but it is something I have always believed in. Granted quality of life may not be desirable at that point, but thats not my decision to make. Second of all, if the Dr. gives you an order to have an emergent transport to the ER or the family so desires, that LTC nurse risks her license if she decides to take it upon herself not to go through with it.

With that said, the EMS personnel in my area are wonderful to work with. I pretty much get along with most of them, but I have noticed that some like to compare nurses and paramedics (who is smarter, who can do more, blah blah) and some think the pay difference is unfair. I guess you have to encounter a$$holes in all walks of life.