more education for CNA's?

germain · Mar 12, 2005

Oh, and I have to add what you all already know, you need more training hours to be a Dog groomer, a manacurist, a fork lift operator, on and on than to be a CNA giving 90% of direct care.

allamericangirl · Mar 12, 2005

I just completed 88 hours of class room and 16 hours of clinical. I certainly wish that I had been given more hours of clinical. The 88 hours of class very well covered our scope of practice, but I do think that the clinical experience was too short. Yes, I certainly think that it would have been helpful to have more education.

CapeCodMermaid, RN · Mar 12, 2005

First, In Washington state now one does not need to be a CNA to be a caregiver in assisted living or adult family homes. INstead of the 86 hours of CNA training they take 24 hours of "fundamentals of caregiving" I looked it over and it was very light.
Second, I am now a CNA and have been for 11 years, and have noticed that in LTC CNAs are often asked to do things outside of their license because the nurses are so swamped, and everyone knows the acuity of patients just gets worse and worse, so- should CNA's get more initial training? If so, what kinds of things would it help nurses if CNA's could do? Do you ever wish your aides knew more?
Another thought- what if being an aide wasn't a thankless dead end job but the beinnning of a nursing career path? Am I dreaming?

At some facilities, the CNA job is the beginning of a nursing career path. We have a few CNA's who are currently going to nursing school and the company is paying for part of their tuition. They have to maintain a certain grade point average and then work for the facility for a certain amount of time.

Lanceman · Mar 12, 2005

Looks like an obvious attempt to save money on payroll. Instead of having to pay a CNA $8 - $10 an hour or whatever they get in Washington they can simply hire workers closer to minimum wage and part-time with no benefits I would venture to guess also.

WARNING Sarcastic comments to follow :)

Maybe next year they will ok the use of illegal immigrants so they can pay them $1.25 an hour or better yet they could pay them like they used to on a farm I worked at: they paid $0.50 for every box of squash picked, how about $0.50 for every care task performed. Imagine how quick they could get through their assigned resident's tasks then. The funny part was some of those illegal guys on the farm were pulling in almost $1,000 a week tax free, alot more than I was making driving a tractor around, of course I had air conditioning and a radio :rotfl:

germain · Mar 12, 2005

At some facilities, the CNA job is the beginning of a nursing career path. We have a few CNA's who are currently going to nursing school and the company is paying for part of their tuition. They have to maintain a certain grade point average and then work for the facility for a certain amount of time.

Exactly, thats the way it should be, work your way up to being an LPN, say, although there will always be a need for more aides. Its now a requirement for nursing school in a lot of places.

But experience doesn't pay when you are an aide unless you move out of LTC. At a SNF I visited recently I asked the CNA wage scale, the administrator said 8.50- 10$/ HR. How sad is that?

jnette, ASN, EMT-I · Mar 12, 2005

Exactly, thats the way it should be, work your way up to being an LPN, say, although there will always be a need for more aides. Its now a requirement for nursing school in a lot of places.
But experience doesn't pay when you are an aide unless you move out of LTC. At a SNF I visited recently I asked the CNA wage scale, the administrator said 8.50- 10$/ HR. How sad is that?

Heh... while I agree that it SHOULD be better, considering I as an RN make just short of $17.00 an hour, that's not all that bad... guess everything is relative, right?

germain · Mar 13, 2005

Heh... while I agree that it SHOULD be better, considering I as an RN make just short of $17.00 an hour, that's not all that bad... guess everything is relative, right?

Wow, yeah, youre right. How about, a studio apartment goes for 650$ utilities not included here. ITs hard to make it on less than 10. My point is more that the span is so small, that someone working 5 years or more isn't paid a lot more, compared to other jobs where one can theoretically move up.

But it is all relative.

blue chips · Mar 13, 2005

Looks like an obvious attempt to save money on payroll. Instead of having to pay a CNA $8 - $10 an hour or whatever they get in Washington they can simply hire workers closer to minimum wage and part-time with no benefits I would venture to guess also.
WARNING Sarcastic comments to follow :)
Maybe next year they will ok the use of illegal immigrants so they can pay them $1.25 an hour or better yet they could pay them like they used to on a farm I worked at: they paid $0.50 for every box of squash picked, how about $0.50 for every care task performed. Imagine how quick they could get through their assigned resident's tasks then. The funny part was some of those illegal guys on the farm were pulling in almost $1,000 a week tax free, alot more than I was making driving a tractor around, of course I had air conditioning and a radio :rotfl:

YOU THIK THIS IS FUNNY?????????????? :uhoh3:

maxcat · Mar 13, 2005

I'm in a CNA class right now (we're in CO). At the local hospital, CNA's start at $12.50/hour. It's also a resort area, so high cost of living, so that $$ doesn't go far. If you do home health, you can make more (like $20/hour, no benefits).

I have found that the CNA route is very much the start of a nursing career for most people. I'm planning on going to nursing school in a few years, as are about half the students in my class. The CNA who I worked w/ today at my first day of clinicals is graduating with his associate's in nursing in May. The other 2 CNA's at the hospital are applying to nursing school in the next year or so. I don't think you are "dreaming" at all. If you want to be a nurse, what is stopping you? I think that being a CNA will give you great experience.

Lanceman · Mar 13, 2005

Second, I am now a CNA and have been for 11 years, and have noticed that in LTC CNAs are often asked to do things outside of their license because the nurses are so swamped, and everyone knows the acuity of patients just gets worse and worse, so- should CNA's get more initial training? If so, what kinds of things would it help nurses if CNA's could do? Do you ever wish your aides knew more?

If the CNA's scope of practice were to be increased then this would overlap into RN/LPN/LVN nurse's scope of practice possibly suggesting a need for less licensed nurses and more CNAs since they could perform more advanced tasks. One would think that if CNA's where given additional more advanced duties to assist the RN then that would give the LTC, hospital, etc. an excuse to increase the RN-patient ratio since in the administration's eyes the RN/LPN would theoretically have less to do.

happthearts · Mar 13, 2005

Second, I am now a CNA and have been for 11 years, and have noticed that in LTC CNAs are often asked to do things outside of their license because the nurses are so swamped, and everyone knows the acuity of patients just gets worse and worse, so- should CNA's get more initial training? If so, what kinds of things would it help nurses if CNA's could do? Do you ever wish your aides knew more?

Another thought- what if being an aide wasn't a thankless dead end job but the beinnning of a nursing career path? Am I dreaming? :rolleyes:

Well When I was a CNA back in the dark ages of 1974 .It took 2 full years to become a CNA 2 It was called Hospital occupations course .The first 6 MTS were in the classroom .Where we learned all the abrev.. Latin terms ,how to chart How to be a PT as well as care-giver how to do PT diets .How to give total bed baths how to do Foley set IV drips How do do NG tube feedings, Oral care. Skin care several types of back care. Death and dying care how to prepare a body to go to morgue. How to work in DOU ,CCU ICU ,X-ray ,ORTHO, Cancer unit ,Dietary ,Pharmacy and central supply Did decubitis care Most of all the treatments .The only thing we did not do was Pass med's or do needle sticks .We did everything else pretty much . Most of which was taken from our scope of practice in the 80 in California. The first 6 months you became a CNA. Then the second 6 months You were given the title of CNA1 .Then If you did the full 2 years including summer You were given the title of CNA2. just under the LPN license and you could take the board for LPN after becomeing CNA 2.at age 18.

Before we were allowed to go on the Floor we were even taught to role play with our other students .I feel this is one of the biggest problems today in nursing People just don't know how to interact with PT's They just don't teach it. We were taught in school to Introduce our self to the Pt tell and explain what we were going to do for the Pt have them help when they can.

Example Hello Mr Garcia I am your CNA today I need to take you down to X-ray in this wheel chair I know your having a little trouble with your left side so I will first be bring you to a sitting position then we will transfer you into the chair moving your body to the right into the chair .So help me as much as you can.

I am forever getting after My CNA's on this subject .To throughly explain what you can do for the PT.and being friendly to the PT .The more you explain the less your PT will work against you.The more glad they will be that you are there CNA.

Some nurses do not even have this skill either they will shove pills in the Pt's mouth without setting them up fully in bed and do not tell the Pt what pills there taking.I had this happen last year when I was in the hospitial.

Regarding what you can do to help the nurse and still keep within your scope of practice

1.If the PT calls for med's make a list and time for the nurse of when the Pt asked leave that copy on her med cart. I always left my nurse a running list of Pt med request.If PT's complain after taking a med report it to the nurse .Example I have a headache or feel faint 20 minutes after they have taken a med.

2 Changes in your PT if you notice changes like your PT looks more grey or Yellow. yellow eyes or they feel hot / cold or complain of being sick having loose stool ,vomiting make notes and report them to your nurse. Plain look a lot different than the day before.

3.any bruises ,decubitis ,redness on there Buttocks .

4. Changes in there mouth bad breath gums that look bad, coated tongue any oral problems .That weren't there before. Cough what did it sound like.

5.Report any thing in general out of the ordinary learn to signs and symptoms of changes to look for in your PT's

6 Toilet the Pt sounds easy But a lot of aides don't do it .Thus cause dignity issues with the Geri PT If you toilet a Pt 3 times on the shift You make everyones life easier.Just offer .Much easier to spend 5 minutes toileting then 10 to 15 cleaning the Pt up. Plus possible having the Pt get decubitis .look at the urine is it dark or smelly could possibly be a UTI report it.Ask the nurse if they would like a sample of it.

Put your self in the PT place would you like laying in urine and Feces No because it would burn and you'd be cold..

It helps the nurse a lot so they don't have to go looking for you to do care.So the nurse can do His /her care for the PT.

7.Learn how to check for possible injuries so you don't make bad mistakes by trying to move a Pt who has fallen.

Example On a possible broken hip you might see one foot rotated outward where the other foot and leg remains straight .You can also check the groin area To see if it flat there or if it has a bump there .If there's a bump on one side of the groin and that foot is rotated outward could be a possible fracture.Always tell your nurse and have them come down and check the Pt always when a PT has fallen .Note that sometime the PT is not imedeate pain with a FX.

If You take a little note book with you in your pocket. Be that nurses eyes and ears she will apeapreate you and trust you . You will then learn a lot in the process to help you along to be a good nurse later Nurse (She/ He )will share there knowlage with you . Learn how to assess your Pt's and read on the Internet ask questions and get to know signs and symptoms really well So you can report them to your nurse.

Trust me if all CNA would follow through on just really being good reporters and great eyes and just did the job there suppose to for that nurse it would make her/ his job so much easer.

These are just not skills taught any more and should be .

Be the best CNA you can be then your job won't feel so dead end.Then you will have great skill for nursing school. You will be ahead of the class.