EC/RN/Paramedics and my Rant

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i did not want to highjack any of the other threads with my concerns/rants, but i just have to get this off my chest. i have been reading a lot about ec and how specifically how ca bon has rejected ec grads. also several other states will only let lvn's that do the rn transition program thought ec gain reciprocity in there state.

my rant:

why are paramedics completely left out of the picture??? i'm sorry maybe i'm skewed in my view, by my skills/standing protocols right now are 200% above and beyond a lvn/lpn in any state.

i perform;

endotracheal intubations, digital intubations, start iv's, start interossous (io) when needed, start nasogastric tubes for gastric levage, have 40+ iv/im medications on standing order that i give based on my clinical judgment, formulate a dx, and tx the patient all with no medical (md) control or order. i can decompress someone with a pneumothorax, i can start a needle cricothyrotomywith upper airway obstructions, and yes i can even do surgical airways in the desperately ill patients. this is all based on the national standard for a paramedic that is trained in medicine. i have to established pt repore to be able to do anything with any patient. on a average day i have 10-12 patient contacts (45mins-1hour each) and i work 5-6 six days a week, on average i see 100 patients a month and i have been in ems for 8 years (for you math freaks yes that is 9600 patient contact hours).

here is my local protocol;

http://srems.com/site/protocols/als_protocols-2004_revisions_cpap.pdf

now what lvn/lpn can say they have anywhere the experience/patient contact that i have had over the last 8 years. ohhh and to top it all off, i have a b.s. in biology (northern arizona university) and a a.a.s (broome community college) in paramedicine!

as a paramedic in the field, i function comparable to a experienced ccu or icu rn. i function with in protocols (rns following a md's orders) and make my clinical judgments based on my assessments (a rn working within parameters in a ccu/icu to manage a patient)

forgive me for being a little upset, but why is my experience not up to parr with a lvns/lpns, because i have never given a patient a bed bath, packed a grade iii decub, or help a patient to the bedside comode?

i bring this up because most states except for ca are letting ec grads in if they were lvns/lpns.

and now on to my next point, why if i have graduated from ec, sat for the same exact nclex-rn as ever other rn, hired in ny worked 3-4 years in a ccu/icu/er and then try to gain reciprocity from ca they will deny me??

that my friends is a load of crap. if in 4 years i have not had my privileges suspended or revoked by any state board of nursing, why on gods green earth would i not, be an "acceptable" rn, i have demonstrated my knowledge by taking the standerized nclex-rn and demonstrated my proficiency/clinical skills in another state for many thousands of hours, yet that is not acceptable?

further because i take a "non" traditional rn school a "traditional" rn grad is better prepared for patient care, this i guess i highly disagree. i would pit my patient care/assessment up with any rn at this point functioning in a critical care area. i may not have the clinical experience to set up a swan/ganz catheter, or help a new resident start a central line in the icu, but my independent assessment and patient care is equal.

so again i state.............how can i not take my clinical experience in the field, learn/gain knowledge into nursing theory/hospital operations and then apply that in hospital. how is that any worse than a gn coming out of any nln rn school in the us (which by the way ec is a nln certified nursing school!)

my purpose is not to start a pissing war with the lpns/lvns (although i know i will have a few flamming me) on this board but as most of the public, people are just not educated on the level of profecience of a paramedic or even how ems operates (i still have some er rn's asking me "you can do that!") just a little food for thought.

thanks for listening to my rant

chris

My two cents on the the whole ER RN vs. MED/SURG RN debate:

As a general rule

ER RNs are more likely to be adept at stabilizing the critical patient. Med/surg RNs usually have a heavier patient load, change a lot more diapers, and have more paper work.

Most med/surg nurses I know do not handle critical patients very well, but are work horses and can take care of a large number of patients appropriately.

My two cents on the the whole ER RN vs. MED/SURG RN debate:

Most med/surg nurses I know do not handle critical patients very well, but are work horses and can take care of a large number of patients appropriately.

Not only is that a gross generalization and not entirely true, it needs to be pointed out that med/surg nurses aren't supposed to be taking care of critical patients in the first place, that is not their job.

So why should they be expected to be good at taking care of critical patients? That's why those patients get moved into ICU when they turn critical.

Interestingly enough, med/surg nurses do take care of critical patients before they get transferred to ICU and their claim to fame is their sharp assessment skills in getting a rapid response or code started to get the ball rolling. Without med/surg nurses, who would spot the changes that warranted a rapid response in the first place and know who to call and what to do initially?

My two cents on the the whole ER RN vs. MED/SURG RN debate:

As a general rule

ER RNs are more likely to be adept at stabilizing the critical patient. Med/surg RNs usually have a heavier patient load, change a lot more diapers, and have more paper work.

You have grossly misjudged medsurg RNs. Have you ever worked outside of the unit or the ER? Medsurg RNs are usually the first to notice a patient is going sour or if something just isn't right. They possess incredible assessment skills just as ICU and ER nurses do. You have effectively generalized a HUGE portion of the RN workforce and dumbed them down to be diaper changers and paper pushers. Congrats.

::dons fire retardant gear::

I don't know what kind of ER you have but let me tell you about a real ER. 50 beds not counting the overflow into the halls. The assignment is 6 rooms plus you share of overflow. This morning 2 ICU admits(no 1 on 1 nursing in an ER) 1 pt actively coding, a pt just brought in by EMS for sepsis SaO2 86% on a nrb BP 74/36 after 1600cc prehospital, along with a r/o Triple A and 4 other pts. I don't see a med/surg nurse handling this well. There is a reason why nurses who come to the ER usually leave and those that stay get fried, ER nursing is one of the hardest and most stressfull. If the nurses in your ER can't start an IV I certainly would not take someone there.

So sorry but that is not true!!! Right now I know of Er nurses that can't even put in an IV, can't even remember the pt's name when calling report and when asked about certain md hx info, reply Oh I don't know I didn't think to ask.

Yes there are some ER nurses that can work med/surg, but I really would like to see them take care of 8-9 pt, with 6 of those being total care, draw labs on those pts, plus do all the danged paperwork.

Sorry, but I don't see ER nurses 'smoking" Med/surge nursing!!

I don't know what kind of ER you have but let me tell you about a real ER. 50 beds not counting the overflow into the halls. The assignment is 6 rooms plus you share of overflow. This morning 2 ICU admits(no 1 on 1 nursing in an ER) 1 pt actively coding, a pt just brought in by EMS for sepsis SaO2 86% on a nrb BP 74/36 after 1600cc prehospital, along with a r/o Triple A and 4 other pts. I don't see a med/surg nurse handling this well. There is a reason why nurses who come to the ER usually leave and those that stay get fried, ER nursing is one of the hardest and most stressfull. If the nurses in your ER can't start an IV I certainly would not take someone there.

Yes there are some ER nurses that can work med/surg, but I really would like to see them take care of 8-9 pt, with 6 of those being total care, draw labs on those pts, plus do all the danged paperwork.

Sorry, but I don't see ER nurses 'smoking" Med/surge nursing!!

Not worth it.

I got you original reply, I don't know how the post got messed up all I did was hit quote.

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