Does being a Male open more doors in the nursing profession

MJ415 · Apr 22, 2010

I don't know whether to laugh at this thread or feel insulted that you as nursing students (or nursing student hopefuls) would see things from such a narrow perspective.

To believe that scores and requirements are dropped to facilitate the admission of "minorities" implies that "minorities" are not as well equipped to perform academically as whomever it is that you are rooting for. So, let me get a grasp on this, are you suggesting that those you define as "minorities" are innately not intelligent enough to be successful without standards being lowered? This is exactly the type of sentiment that caused policies such as affirmative action to be passed in the first place.

On that note, I strongly recommend looking up affirmative action before jumping to conclusions and speaking about it with such disdain- here's a good link:

http://definitions.uslegal.com/a/affirmative-action/

Never once do you see the word of the law requiring preferential treatment for the unqualified "minority" over qualified "majority" applicants.

K.P.A. · Apr 22, 2010

Universities have always played around with admission metrics. Whoops, too many Jews(Harvard), men(Georgia Tech), Chinese(Stanford)...

Women applying to engineering school get a lot of 'additional consideration'.

nursenow · Apr 22, 2010

The law doesn't use those exact words but to suggest that giving preferential treatment to the less qualified is not what happens indicates a certain ignorance of the reality of the situation. We are not talking about intellegence but education. Why do you jump to the conclusion that we are talking about intellegence?

If your reading comprehension is below average don't blame it on your background, do some extra work to bring it up to an acceptable level... Lowering expectations for a poor student doesn't help that student. Personaly, I would be insulted if a school said it would let me in with lower scores because I am a man and since men are under represented in nursing it is only fair to let me in ahead of more qualified women. Yet that happens everyday with legal minorities because the law requires it.

MJ415 · Apr 22, 2010

I just heard that the RN program Im planning to apply to recently added this Diversity Program where males and people of other races can be accepted if they arent accepted the regular way based on points of grades and our entrance test.

The law doesn't use those exact words but to suggest that giving preferential treatment to the less qualified is not what happens indicates a certain ignorance of the reality of the situation. We are not talking about intellegence but education. Why do you jump to the conclusion that we are talking about intellegence?
If your reading comprehension is below average don't blame it on your background, do some extra work to bring it up to an acceptable level... Lowering expectations for a poor student doesn't help that student. Personaly, I would be insulted if a school said it would let me in with lower scores because I am a man and since men are under represented in nursing it is only fair to let me in ahead of more qualified women. Yet that happens everyday with legal minorities because the law requires it.

I chose my words carefully based on the general inclination, which is being displayed here, to believe that under-qualified minorities are given preference over the qualified majority. The key words here are qualified vs. under-qualified. And since the venue of this discussion revolves around scholastic qualifications- it seems only reasonable to ascertain that the minority candidate's level of intelligence is under scrutiny rather than intangibles such as study habits, work ethic... etc.

Affirmative action may allow preference to be given to a representative from a qualified minority over a representative from a qualified majority on a limited basis- however, both representatives are qualified. The nursing profession, in particular, benefits from a diverse workforce to care for a diverse clientele (patients). I see no qualm with giving a certain amount of an underrepresented population a helping hand... as long as they are competitively qualified for the position.

Anoetos, BSN, RN · Apr 22, 2010

Affirmative action may allow preference to be given to a representative from a qualified minority over a representative from a qualified majority on a limited basis- however, both representatives are qualified. The nursing profession, in particular, benefits from a diverse workforce to care for a diverse clientele (patients). I see no qualm with giving a certain amount of an underrepresented population a helping hand... as long as they are competitively qualified for the position.

This is the scenario I see playing out. I do NOT see underqualified men being accepted to schools or given jobs in preference to equally qualified women.

nursenow · Apr 23, 2010

If the reality was that two equaly qualified people were applying for a job and the job goes to the legal minority, I would be OK with affirmative action The problem is that is not what happens. The case recently on the east coast involving the white firemen sueing the city because the city felt it was only fair to promote less qualified people (the white fire fighters won) is a perfect example. I think the developers of affirmative action had good intentions but it has been twisted and abused by people for political gain to the point where I can no longer support it. When someone comes online and insinuates people are racist or uninformed because they don't support affirmative action--- well lets just say I consider that to be unfair.

JStylesNY · May 2, 2010

i dont know about job prospects, but i honestly think that being male helped me get accepted to the nursing programs i've applied to. my GPA is....mediocre... 3.2

but i've been accepted to every nursing program i applied to. i just cant find any reason to justify that when my female peers were rejected from a lot of the same programs with better GPAs... :nurse:

that having been said, AllNurses needs to get a manly male nurse smiley. im tired of having to use the female nurse smiley dammit! but here it is again. :nurse:

ParkerBC,MSN,RN, PhD, RN · May 2, 2010

here is a web link to indiana university’s school of medicine. they have a program to prepare students from “disadvantaged backgrounds” to pursue a medical degree. the program is a master’s program that prepares the students to enter medical school. the program also provides intensive training during the summer to sit for mcat exam. generally those who complete the program are accepted into the medical school. http://www.msms.iu.edu/body.cfm?id=7000

the reason for the program is to promote diversity in the school of medicine. now, here is an interesting point. those who had, let’s say an undergraduate degree gpa of 3.00, were accepted into this unique program where they prepare for two years for medical school will have an upper hand on let’s say a student like myself with a 3.8 undergraduate gpa and a slightly higher mcat score. the information is published on the school’s website. take a look.

so, no i don’t think it is too farfetched that schools will accept male students over female students. do i think it is fair? no, but it is the reality of the world we live in. will the schools ever be sued for their actions? i doubt it. in my state, single mothers on welfare have the first dibs on seats in the community college program. of course they have to take pre requisites and the teas test, but their scores are not as competitive as those applying to the program. there has yet to be a class action suit against the school and i don’t think there will ever be one.

i don’t think schools will accept just anyone into a program. i think the students will have to pass the pre requisites to get in and maintain their gpa while in the program. there are objective credits given to those applying. for example, if an a equates to 5 points for admissions, then those points will be equally distributed. however, since an interview is subjective, here is where the facility can manipulate the points. so, why would anyone think that schools don’t make changes on interview scores? let’s say that there are eight seats left in the program and there are ten people with the same number of points for grades. there are five men and five women. you don’t think the interviewer, when told there needs to be more men in nursing, would score the men higher on the interviews so that they could get it? of course they do. the other thing to consider is the weight distribution of all criteria for acceptance. perhaps the entrance test and gpa weigh just as evenly as an interview.

if you think we live in a world where this doesn’t happen, then you really need to wake up. it is the reality.

MJ415 · May 2, 2010

Yet this still does not make a case proving that unqualified applicants are being chosen over qualified applicants. On the other hand, it is an argument for more diversity being needed in health care.

When the time comes for a patient, and they are unable to ambulate, perhaps they don't want a woman to assist them with a bed-pan; and perhaps they don't want their prostate examined by a woman; and perhaps they don't want their Foley inserted by a woman. I imagine that the same concept bears some truth in a significant percentage of female patients as well.

What is the recourse for the patient? Accepting an apology from management explaining that "We're sorry, female nurse just seem to have a higher aptitude for nursing".

ParkerBC,MSN,RN, PhD, RN · May 2, 2010

mj415,

yet this still does not make a case proving that unqualified applicants are being chosen over qualified applicants. on the other hand, it is an argument for more diversity being needed in health care.

i am not trying to make a case proving that unqualified applicants are being chosen over qualified candidates. i don’t have to make the case because it should be assumed that those who have applied to nursing school meet the minimum requirements. therefore, it can be concluded that all students are qualified.

when the time comes for a patient, and they are unable to ambulate, perhaps they don't want a woman to assist them with a bed-pan; and perhaps they don't want their prostate examined by a woman; and perhaps they don't want their foley inserted by a woman. i imagine that the same concept bears some truth in a significant percentage of female patients as well.

perhaps you are correct. perhaps this may be one of the driving factors of having more male nurses on the floor.

what is the recourse for the patient? accepting an apology from management explaining that "we're sorry, female nurse just seem to have a higher aptitude for nursing"..

this has to be one of the most ridiculous statements i have read thus far on the board.

here is the point…the point is that schools make adjustments for minorities, period. it should not be misunderstood that the minorities are not qualified. there are ratios that schools and employers try to meet. as i mentioned, the community college in my state accepts single mothers on welfare first. of course they have completed their pre-requisites and passed with the minimum scores for the teas exam. however, there are plenty of other students who have better grades and higher teas exam scores who will not be accepted because the school is trying to meet a quota. did you bother to look at the link i provided? the students for that program also took the mcat, interviewed, and had okay gpa’s, but they were not competitive enough to get it. so, iu developed a program where these students can get a master’s degree, provide intensive training to retake the mcat and so as long as they maintain a minimum gpa of 3.0 and average mcat scores, they get in. so, these students are going to take seats away from the next group of students applying. those who have worked their asses off to get a 3.9 gpa and high mcat scores because the other students couldn’t cut it the first time around will not be accepted. i am sorry, but i don’t want a 3.0 gpa doctor helping me. so, is it about diversity? of course. do i think minorities are less smart than majorities? i let the numbers speak for themselves. i know of many minorities who are highly intelligent, so i wouldn’t dare use a blanketed statement about their background as it would false.

and for the record, the majority of the single mothers either drop out or fail out because they can’t cut it.

Anoetos, BSN, RN · May 2, 2010

Parker,

I am pretty sure he was being facetious when he said,

What is the recourse for the patient? Accepting an apology from management explaining that "We're sorry, female nurse just seem to have a higher aptitude for nursing"..

I don't think it was meant as a serious or accurate assessment.

MJ415 · May 3, 2010

Thanks Anoetos you are quite right.

Listen (there can be no argument here)... by sheer volume it is apparent that minorities will be under-represented- hence the programs instated to bolster their numbers. You don't actually think that just as many males apply for nursing school as do females do you?

As far as the programs that you are insisting upon, (which I see no indication there is a guaranteed agreement for admittance into medical school), here are a few more links for students who are not minorities (mind you, this is just in California where medical school is just as competitive if not more so than the vast majority of geographical regions in the US):

California State University - Los Angeles: Post-Baccalaureate Certificate Program for Pre-Health Professionals

California State University Fullerton: Certificate in Pre-Health Professions Studies

UC Berkeley Extension: Post-Baccalaureate Program--Health Professions Post-Baccalaureate Certificate Program

UC Davis School of Medicine: Postbaccalaureate Program

UC Irvine School of Medicine: Postbaccalaureate Program

If you want more programs for different states here is a link that will suit your needs http://services.aamc.org/postbac/:

You will find hundreds for different programs designed for student who "were not competitive enough to get in"... and believe it or not.... They are not all for minorities... Imagine that.

You don't want a 3.0 gpa student being your doctor...? How about the 3.9 gpa IU grad from med school being your physician.... Would you credit their success in medical school to this program? Or did they have it too easy, and thus you would prefer the majority representative, whom you think is obviously more capable, because he was admitted into medical school the "traditional" way?