Do You Want Universal Healthcare?

[DanFNP]

I know this topic has been discussed before on this site..but, I was curious for an updated response. How many of you would be willing to pay more taxes for universal healthcare? I find it egregious that the US has put a cost on maintaining/saving ones life! I traveled to Europe and the thought of them having to bring their checkbook to the hospital aroused literal laughs. It's the same notion that we'd have to whip out our debit card to firefighters before they turned the hoses on our burning homes. It's sad. I think the overall costs of UH would be beneficial...in fact, the raised taxes would still probably be lower than our rising premiums every 2 weeks! Thoughts?

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

Post the information showing all the tax breaks they are recieving as well. Your republican hero John McCain doesn't think it a good idea to remove their subsidies and tax breaks.

The rich, unfortunately as you may see it, do have the burden of paying higher taxes to help maintain the very merket and country that keeps them rich. Tax breaks for the rich have not worked they didn't work in the 80's and they certainly haven't worked in the last 7 years.

The basic theme of the arguments taking place here is that the rich should not have to pay any additional taxes to support the poor or less fortunate. I disagree and this is why.

I attended public school, joined the military, was sent to the first gulf war, used my GI Bill and many student loans to get my degree, used childcare asssistance while in school and once even required a brief food stamp assistance. I now make over 60k a year, pay my taxes and will for many years, make my student loan payments on time and contribute to the Democratic party to ensure the next degenerate like me has the same chance.

We have to invest in our people and have to be willing to accept that some will abuse that assistance but many others like myself will use it as it is intended and will ultimatley pay back a big return to our overall society. I will pay more taxes than I ever would have otherwise, my children will go to college with much less assitance if any at all, I am a homeowner three times now(also with the VA loan).

Have some compassion for those less fortunate than your self and realize that we are not all playing the game on the same quality of field.

BRAVO ZULU!:yeah::yeah:

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

Please give me a little more credit than that. When I say they don't mean anything to me, that should not be interpreted to mean I'm too dumb to interpret it. Usually, I feel they really don't tell the story, they take up too much space and it's a choice I make. Of course, you are free to try and make your point using them. I make my choice to ignore them.

I apoplogize for my snarkiness. I violated my personal rule of never posting when any of HALT applies. I merely meant to point out that I do provide links to the other information that are addressed by the graphics.

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

How hard is it to determine whether or not a company actually physically exists? Not very. No effort was made.

There is no evidence presented that an effort was not made. (The other point is that the bad actors were eventually caught.)

One of the central underpinnings of society is honesty. I think that when we collectively expect honest behavior from each other that we create the environment to support the fulfillment of that expectation.

[Jolie, BSN]

My military service ensured my right to ridicule the president who by the way bs'd his way through the guard.

I must go to bed so remember this one thing. I, me, Stanley Williams gave away 4+ years of his life to protect your freedom to like Bush. Bush never did that for anyone. He BS'd his way through the Guard. Kerry served in the military and EARNED the right to throw away his medals. It's not good taste to criticize the conduct of veterans of a military you haven't served in... Just my humble veteran opinion...

Stanley,

I also thank you, Viking, and all active duty and vets for your service to our country and its people. I admire your selflessness more than you will ever know.

But despite your quote above, you seem to be vehement in your dislike of McCain. I assume that is because you consider more than one aspect of a candidate's history in determining whom to support. It's the same with those of us who voted for Bush in 2004. I was already disappointed in his lack of leadership qualities. But I felt I had no choice other than to acknowledge his shortcomings while voting for him, because Kerry was so objectionable to me. Thank you for protecting my right to my opinion and freedom to cast my vote.

[Jolie, BSN]

if you read my post i very clearly stated that there were well off people in ny, and california who clearly did the right thing (notice they are blue states). there are many famous people who came out with their support recently for obama, and uhc because even though they are rich and famous they want to do the right thing for the country.

you and i obviously have different opinions of what constitutes the "right thing." how about hollywood celebs and rich people in ny and ca coming out to support programs that improve people's lives thru personal responsibility?

so i did not say "all rich people", but those being well off, or vested in big business are one of the groups of people who voted for bush.

i'm relieved to know that you are not condemning all rich people, only those who beliefs you don't understand or share.

i also did not say that all elderly are confused. i stated that those who are elderly and confused voted for bush (notice florida is a red state).

thanks for that clarification. that makes a world of difference! so what is it about florida that ruins elderly people's minds? or do only confused people retire there?

in addition if you look at some of our poorest southern states they are red states (strange you say!!!). these people are not vested in big business, and they are not get the "i am wealthy tax cuts" type people so you must ask them why. most say that it is because "bush believes in god", "bush is patriotic", "they like the way he talks" etc. you have to assume that people who base their choice for president on these reasons, and choose a president who actually makes their very dire situation worse must do so for a reason. it is only common sense to conclude that the fact that they are lack an education, and the resources to gather information (internet, books) etc, and possibly even the ability to read said information might play into that reason.

why do "you have to assume this"? i certainly don't assume it. i assume the best in people. that they make their choice for president based on their values and beliefs, like god, country, faith in the common man, belief that it is the responsibility of families and communities to care for each other. why do you assume that these people "lack an education"? do they not have public schools there, like those wealthy blue states have? why would they not learn to read in their public schools?

before you go off and say i am saying all southern states are poor, uneducated people i am not.

for example i live in dallas, texas which is a red state. i believe it is a red state because we have a mix. there are areas of great wealth where people want those "wealthy tax cuts", and many people vested in big business. in addition, we have areas where 5th grade drop outs live in rural areas in their home with wheels, and like to handle snakes at church on sunday. they don't have internet because its gods work, and would mean they would have to use their beer money for something else. they like bush cause he sounds cool when he talks, comes from texas, and loves god. you get the picture.

then you got the middle class folks who are stuck in the middle yelling why!!!!!

well, i'm glad you have diversity in texas. let's see, "areas of great wealth", and "areas where 5th grade drop outs live in rural areas in their home with wheels, and like to handle snakes at church on sunday. they don't have internet because its gods (sic) work, and would mean they would have to use their beer money for something else." just where do you fit in?

thanks posted in error.

wow! i don't even know where to begin! this is your clarification showing that you aren't prejudiced against people whose beliefs you don't share?

[Atheos]

I will admit that I am prejudiced towards some people whose beliefs I don't share. I don't always show it but usually when people believe in certain things they tend to think a certain way,

That way of thinking automatically requires me to write them off.

Usually these are weird esoteric things, but the biggest one of course is ignorance. Ignorant people always receive the full brunt of my prejudice...

:)

Of course, some nonsense I can't tolerate, it is of course my failing and no one else's. I won't mention what they are but it's pretty easy to tell what and who those are...

In fact, anyone that says they have no prejudices is of course lying...

[Jolie, BSN]

How do you know that no effort is made. And would you prefer that it take months to reimburse legitimate claims due to lengthy validation. Your arguement really has nothing to do with universal health care and the need to have a program that covers the uninsured and regulates the greedy insurance companies that deny based on profit and loss potential insted of allowing the physician and patient to make the decisions. They have no right. We as consumers are stuck in a failed system.

A single visit to the company cited in the article revealed an empty office and a chat with the building security guard indicated that no one had been seen entering or leaving the office for months. That's not exactly high-powered detective work. And please, we all know that Medicare is not exactly prompt in its payments now. Doing a yearly check on businesses accepting Medicare payments (to ensure they actually exist) is not going to hinder prompt payment.

My argument is that not one single additional dollar should be extracted from the taxpayers for any government-funded healthcare program until fraud, abuse and waste is eliminated from the curent system. $97 million dollars would have paid for a heck of a lot of legitimate healthcare for actual patients in South Florida in 2006!

I don't disagree that our current system has major flaws. But throwing more money into a system that lacks accountability and encourages fraud won't improve anything for those curently lacking services.

[Jolie, BSN]

And my point has been that the waste in administrative health care costs for "efficient" private insurance far exceeds the value of "mismanagement. in FFS medicare"

So because you contend that Medicare fraud apparently costs less than private insurance inefficiency, we should accept it??!!

It is the height of irresponsibility and arrogance to demand for more funding from the taxpayers (for anything) when the dollars currently being paid are being misappropriated.

Look at it this way: You pay your rent on the first of the month and expect 30 days of housing, heat and electricity. On the 15th, your heat and power are shut off. You contact the landlord who explains that he bought into a get-rich-quick-scam, losing half of the money, so now he can't pay the utilities, and they have been turned off. He states that if you would just give him another $200 he could resume the services that you already paid for.

I doubt too many of us would would hand over an additional $200. We would seek other recourse to obtain the services we had already paid for. Why should we treat the federal government differently? Why should we send them more money when they misappropriate the first payment?

There are admittedly a few problems with this scenario. First of all, you have a choice of landlords. You can ask for references and choose a reputable landlord from whom to rent. You can't choose a reputable government to which to pay taxes. Secondly, the landlord doesn't have access to your paycheck to confiscate your rent, so you do have recourse. You can with-hold future payments if you don't get the services that were promised to you. Unfortunately, you can't with-hold federal taxes, regardless of how irresponsible the spending is.

[Jolie, BSN]

In fact, anyone that says they have no prejudices is of course lying...

I agree. But I don't belittle people by portraying them as uneducated hicks because they vote for candidates I don't support.

[Atheos]

Wouldn't UHC replace Medicare? If UHC was implemented the problems with Medicare would be solved as it would be gone...

Of course, it's easy to expect someone else to ride the 1000 headed beast. Name one government program that isn't defrauded. One.

Even the IRS with the BEST investigative procedures gets defrauded.

The best thing to do is come up with a UHC plan that works and replace medicare/medicaid altogether. Why fix a system we are going to replace? We have the technology to prevent fraud easily. It just takes more money and a loss of certain freedoms. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

The only way a government can absolutely prevent fraud is to totally control the process. Which is why every year the DMVs get slower and slower and less efficient with more and more arbitrary rules. Of course the DMV has eliminated most of the fraud that originates from it's offices. At what cost though...

It's easy to say they can do this or should do that. That's like the patient critiquing your job performance as a nurse...

[Atheos]

I agree. But I don't belittle people by portraying them as uneducated hicks because they vote for candidates I don't support.

I belittle people all the time. Especially for their 'choice' of president. Just not on allnurses... And never publicly!!! :) Inner monologues are wonderful things!

Some things are just inexcusable...

The delivery of a message does NOT impact the message's accuracy however. People never seem to understand that...

[tntrn, ASN, RN]

My military service ensured my right to ridicule the president who by the way bs'd his way through the guard.

I must go to bed so remember this one thing. I, me, Stanley Williams gave away 4+ years of his life to protect your freedom to like Bush. It's not good taste to criticize the conduct of veterans of a military you haven't served in... Just my humble veteran opinion...

As if you have to remind a veteran what a soldier does... Bleh

I would remind you that many, thousands, who went before you ensured your right to ridicule the President. You served to maintain that right. I thank you for your service, but I detect a proud reluctance on your part that you did. On the one hand, you served and we know that (and appreciate it). On the other hand you seem to have some real issues with it.

And you have not a clue whether or not I am a veteran or not. I note that you are half my age, and wonder if another 30 years will result in a change in your thinking. I do hope and pray that you will be happier than you seem to be now.

I have read all your posts in this thread and from the beginning have said (to my own inner self) Man, that is one unhappy dude. Mind you, I'm only going on your written word, and how you've presented it. And as long as we are categorizing groups, I find that true of many liberal types.

Most ( of the unhappy, angry ones) are the ones who have either grown up with the entitlement gene or who have drunk the Koolaid about how they have to the right to this or that. I don't think you are in that last bunch, because according to your byline, you are working hard to get more education and skills, and therefore you will be able to command better pay, and therefore a better life.

Now, if all those who think they have the right to be just taken care of would approach their own problems the way you have, maybe they, too, would find themselves in a better place. And might even along the way, find their self-esteem and pride in having worked hard for something and EARNED it.

I am not at all opposed to helping people help themselves; get them into an educational process so that they can get a skill and become independent. But to just hand it out because they're poor, without requiring some kind of return demonstration of determination to change their lives: no.

I will pray for you Stanley, even though I have also noted you state you are an atheist. I hope that you are able to complete your journey successfully, but I'm afraid your anger, which spills over into every post here, may become a problem once you are working as an RN. I will pray about that too.

Peace to you.