Do nursing schools actually conciously REALIZE they are being ridiculous or is it a..

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a matter where they are doing the best they can, and it just works out that way? Let me give you one example. My wife had over one thousand pages of reading due THE FIRST WEEK back from Christmas break. Her first test in Med/Surg last week included approximately 2,200 pages if you count the handouts, and assigned articles. What is more, her exam had six questions that were NOT EVEN COVERED in the assigned readings (they apparently used a test bank designed for a different text). The class average was a 70% with few or no A's. When the students tried to complain they were told they would have to set up private appointments with the instructor who maintains a grand total of TWO HOURS a week in office hours.

This school has one of the best reputations in the area. Do they do this deliberately? They claim to be reasonable people doing their very best to provide an excellent education. Don't they realize that this sort of thing makes getting the grades for graduate school almost impossible!

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Originally posted by Speculating

Roland;

Your wife may be one of those nurses taught to be submissive, but from you not her instructors. You sound like a pretty domineering husband to me. Your wife's a big girl is she not able to come to the board and speak for herself? I think we are losing too much in translation. She seems to have a lot more trouble going on with school than I'm sure she's really having. I'm a little worried after your last post though. Does your wife want to be a nurse or do you want your wife to be a nurse? It sounds to me like it will get to be very difficult for you if she fails nursing school and all. It may be easier for you to just divorce her and marry one with a proven track record than for you to work a little more

thought-provoking post. I think this deserves CAREFUL consideration by the OP, based upon what I read from him here.:eek:

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however, she will not wast time debating points that don't really change things (as I often will since I find it to be a worthwhile intellectual exercise and a therapeutic outlet for expressing my concerns, not to mention a vehicle for gaining incites and information). I don't understand the personal attacks when I am simply raising issues to be debated in the context of a forum designed for that very purpose. The closest that I have come to a personal attack against anyone else is to suggest that they are not being intellectually honest. I am not exceptionally domineering, but even if I was, so what? Last time I checked there wasn't any law on the books that specified that only people with certain personalities were allowed to express their opinions. Nothing said here has been any more energetic than you would see in an average night of watching Hannity&Colmes, or Begala and Carlson.

The point is not whether or not we get grades good enough to go to graduate school or not (although I believe that we will, and it is very important to us). Neither is the point whether or not nursing school should be tough. We both believe that it should. Rather, it is that there seems to be a plethora of sentiment about patently unfair practices within many nursing school programs. These practices range from listing incorrect answers as correct (and then refusing to defend their actions) to testing material not covered in the course (again and then refusing to defend their actions).

The original point of the post was to question whether or not Nursing schools even REALIZE that they are acting in a manner that much of the larger academic community might find reprehensible. I have had at least four friends graduate from three different medical schools, and they have described NOTHING like this. One friend failed Gross Anatomy and had to retake it over the summer, but he admitted that the tests were very fair, he just didn't study hard enough (he actually said that he felt that he benefited greatly from the extra lab time of having to retake the course). My anatomy, and physiology courses were difficult, but with few exceptions the questions were very accurate (not surprising since they were based upon tests that came with the instructor manuals that had been extensively peer reviewed).

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Originally posted by Roland

The original point of the post was to question whether or not Nursing schools even REALIZE that they are acting in a manner that much of the larger academic community might find reprehensible. I have had at least four friends graduate from three different medical schools, and they have described NOTHING like this. One friend failed Gross Anatomy and had to retake it over the summer, but he admitted that the tests were very fair, he just didn't study hard enough (he actually said that he felt that he benefited greatly from the extra lab time of having to retake the course). My anatomy, and phsiology courses were difficult, but with few exceptions the questions were very accurate (not surprising since they were based upon tests that came with the instructor manuals that had been extensively peer reviewed).

sigh...

You have such a way of failing to be succinct when it would definately do. It always boils down to a simple point after you write VOLUMES to make it! That said....

If you really want to know this, why post this here? POLL THE NURSING SCHOOLS TO FIND OUT IF THEY THINK THEY ARE BEING UNFAIR AND/OR UNREALISTIC.

I bet I know what the results would be, however. Seems to me it is a "suck it up or move on" type of situation. It is not fair, but I don't see us changing it in this venue.

It also seems to me you have more than the necessary intelligence and ability to adapt and overcome. When you finish graduate school, make a difference and CHANGE what is so bothersome about all this to you. THAT is a positive step in the right direction, to me, anyhow!

Have a good night.

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Specializes in cardiac, diabetes, OB/GYN.

My goodness..I see nursing school is STILL as tough as I remember it in the years 1978-1981...It's tough, but she'll do it....Have you seen the homework they give first graders these days? Some one must feel people have all the time in the world. They must be the ones developing the curriculums...

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By fab4fan

It's your right...I can't imagine, for exaple, going to a BB for resp. therapists and ranting about how awful that job is. But you certainly have a right to say what you think.

What makes you think that I'm coming here to rant about how awful the nursing job is? I think you have me confused with the thousands of nurses on this board that do that daily.

I certainly don't think I said I was coming here in a destructive role. I'm here in support. Evolution is taking place and I'm here to ensure the survival of my species.

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I agree with Roland's point, but also with the others. Sometimes it is totally ridiculous and unfair. I've thought of quitting many, many times.

But, in the end, I try to look at it as boot camp. The harder it is, the harder it will be for someone to take my job once I finally finish.

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Originally posted by nrsstephanie

Ok, I am a nursing instructor and no, we do not try to fail a certain percentage of students. And actually each state board of nursing closely monitors each school's attrition rate. If the number of students who graduate is too small in comparison to the number of students who began in the class, then the school can be placed on probation.

Interesting point.

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Specializes in ER.

Lord above...the solution to this is so simple.

If a person feels they are truly being treated in an unjust fashion it is time to grow a pair, and discuss it with those in charge in a professional, objective manner. If said person is willing only to complain, and not voice their concerns to the powers that be, it is time to suck it up and drive on.

I have never refrained from voicing a VALID concern because I feared being labeled a "whiner".

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I do have some empathy for Roland. Frankly, I think he is going to be very unhappy as a nurse. And in no way do I mean that as a personal attack. In fact, I see a lot of "Roland" in myself. But as one who has spent a fair amount of time in the academic and business world, I must say that nursing is definately "unique". If one is unwilling or unable to accept that uniqueness, anger, disappointment and unhappiness are inevitable.

But that said, I think his criticisms of the tests are valid. Nursing instructors in general have no formal training in test construction. And as one strays from the hard sciences, the potential for honest differences as to what constitutes a correct response increases dramatically. But what Roland describes here should not be permitted to continue. Obviously it distorts the evaluation process. It is also needlessly disrespectful of the student's efforts. And as consumers of a very expensive commodity, these students are being shortchanged.

There is no acceptable reason for this to have occured in the first place. The same thing no doubt happened the prior year and will likely occur next year. You have to wonder why.... too lazy to remove the uncovered material?....or to revise the curriculum?....or pure sadistic head picking?

The cruel irony is that once you pass your NCLEX, nobody cares about your grades EXCEPT institutions of higher learning----as such, one would think that they would be faithful stewards of the process.

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Originally posted by Buddhakan

Well having lurked a bit, I notice that some have commented that "informed" students would be wise to check the Pass Rates of schools, however as with most things that information does not seem to be readily available.

I'll seek it out on my own but if anyone wants to save me the legwork, it would be much appreciated.

Good Luck all and have a great day.

BK

People who accept second hand information as factual often feel betrayed down the road. The betrayer is themself for taking a short cut and relying on someone who was not the source.

If you want to know a schools pass rate go directly to that school and ask them directly. They have to show you the figures.

Asking some one else to do this for you is not a short cut. Asking on the internet is plain insane.

The information may not be published where you don't have to request it. However, it is readily available. Always go to the sorce for your informantion. If I believed ever self proclaimed expert who "knew" the information they spewed at me I would be in a very different place in my life.

Only the school or state board can give you the most recient and definitive answer to this that information. Actually the school is a better source as there are many students who take the boards in another state after graduation. Check to see that the school is acredited by the National League for Nursing. Then NLN will also have a low down on the quality of the school if they acredit the school.

Remember you get what you pay for that applies to information that you receive. If you do nothing and just let anyone give it to you what you have will not be worth anything as you cannot rely on it.

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Originally posted by nrsstephanie

Ok, I am a nursing instructor and no, we do not try to fail a certain percentage of students. And actually each state board of nursing closely monitors each school's attrition rate. If the number of students who graduate is too small in comparison to the number of students who began in the class, then the school can be placed on probation.

Nrs Stephanie

I was just curious about the 2200pg stmt the OP made. In your experience is THAT much reading truly assigned for one test in one class? I actually pulled out my old med/ surg book which is a very big animal and the whole book only had 1986 pages..I guess I have a hard time swallowing the 2200 pages of material for one test in one class...

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Specializes in Med/Surg, ER, L&D, ICU, OR, Educator.

Yes, Roland has a valid point, and nursing school sucks! And it's hard! But what are you going to do? You should present your concerns to the powers that be, and then move on. All the people in the class were in the same situation, with identical reading lists and lecture information, so the grading curve was unaffected. An unfair question, but that comes out in the wash, since the playing field was even.

Move on! It stinks, and you will probably still make these complaints when remembering back, but all this energy will have made no difference. If you want to make a change, you (or preferably your wife, since she is the student, right? Are you a bit overinvolved here?) should readdress this after the completion of the class, and only then if you do not have this instructor again in another future position of critiquing you.

I also certianly hope that you are not putting the pressure of your vision of future graduate school acceptance on your wife's plate, on top of her healthy portion of nursing school stress! Try taking one lifetime stage at a time, man! Lighten up!

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