This vile expression implies that experienced nurses do not treat new nurses kindly. My first problem with the statement is that it’s a generalization implying that all nurses are like that. Interestingly, whenever I hear someone utter the expression, I always say, “I don’t do that. Do you?” The person making the statement always says, “Oh no, I don’t, but many others do.” I’ve never heard even one nurse own up to doing this, although some nurses are willing to indict the entire profession. Every time that statement is repeated, it causes harm and casts a dark shadow on every nurse. Say anything enough, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Please note that by moderator consensus some of the "Nurses Eat Their Young" posts will be referred to this thread where there can be an ongoing discussion, rather than several threads saying the same thing.
To students and new grads that are having problems with nurses, please take a moment to read the above link. Is it really the entire profession, every single nurse, or do you need help with one or a few nurses? We will be glad to help you in dealing with those people, but let bury the phrase "Nurses Eat Their Young".
To experienced nurses who claim our profession eats it's young, please take a moment to read it as well and think about it. Also take time to teach, be friendly and nurturing to the new nurse and students on your unit.
In Britain ,you call in your link tutor. I never did it, but almost every other placement, one of my peers did have to call someone in. It steams, probably, from a mixture of lack of proper mentorship education, busy wards, personality clashes etc.
Unfortunately only once I did see measures being taken. My colleague was given another placement.
The system at my uni is like this: 4 weeks placements, at the end of which you produce for your portfolio (amongst million other things) a summative and a formative report written and signed by your mentor.You haven't got them, you don't pass the portfolio. Easy. The general consensus amongst my peers is that it's not worth reporting, it's only 4 weeks, just put your head down, do your outmost to achieve your learning agreements, practice, research, the rest will go in 4 weeks time. At the end of the module, you get to fill in a placement and module evaluation form, that's your chance to get it off your chest and pray and hope that the next poor student who's taking your place will have it easier and that Uni would have intervened and changed something.It's swim or sink. Out of 400 something at the beginning of the course, 150 have sank already in just 2 years. It's a tough world out there.
Oh, did I mention that there just aren't enough placements?
Wow....a very heated discussion to say the least! I'm a new graduate, not far out of school and I too have had some hard headed instructors but have found that in the long run they have helped me more than anything.
I am starting Monday my first job out of college. This discussion makes me wonder what i'm to experience being a "new" nurse. When touring the unit I did not get the feeling that I was to be "eaten" by my elders (I agreethis is not a term that really fits anymore, or is politically correct); rather I got the impression that I was in the right spot to start my career. Perhaps much of that is my attitude going into this position, but how much of our attitudes that we exude onto "seasoned" nurses has to do with the way they treat new graduates or new nurses in general. We are trained as nurses to assess people, why would an experienced nurse not be able to tell if we went into a job with a wall up to begin with. Just some thoughts, needless to say i'm not going to worry about someone beating me down; after four years in college i'm ready to start soaking up whatever they are ready to hand out. Good luck to all the nurses out there in my position and just keep smiling!
Wow....a very heated discussion to say the least! I'm a new graduate, not far out of school and I too have had some hard headed instructors but have found that in the long run they have helped me more than anything.
I am starting Monday my first job out of college. This discussion makes me wonder what i'm to experience being a "new" nurse. When touring the unit I did not get the feeling that I was to be "eaten" by my elders (I agreethis is not a term that really fits anymore, or is politically correct); rather I got the impression that I was in the right spot to start my career. Perhaps much of that is my attitude going into this position, but how much of our attitudes that we exude onto "seasoned" nurses has to do with the way they treat new graduates or new nurses in general. We are trained as nurses to assess people, why would an experienced nurse not be able to tell if we went into a job with a wall up to begin with. Just some thoughts, needless to say i'm not going to worry about someone beating me down; after four years in college i'm ready to start soaking up whatever they are ready to hand out. Good luck to all the nurses out there in my position and just keep smiling!
Good for you! Great attitude..by the way...Joint Commission has put in a new mandate--about abusive behaviors....from healthcare providers.....this should put an END to the "eating of young"...:heartbeat
I agree.. as a new grad its a part of nursing culture where I work; I have worked with the creme d'la creme of nurses in clinicals; and I have worked with my worst nightmares in real world practice . I have already been chewed up and spit out a couple of times by more experienced nurses who are annoyed by my passion, eagerness but obvious inexperience.
Having quickly learned that nursing can be a burnout profession being able to smooze or rather stroke a more experienced nurse (even the nightmare nurses) the right way is essential to professional rapport and growth--even when some may prefer to eat you alive!!
Example: LTC G-tube pt. w/gunked up Gtube.... nurse says to new nurse (me).. you didn't flush did you? yes, followed MAR.. no way! come with me.. (she doesn't know I am new grad)... okay.. after a couple hundred cc flush.. i mentioned Mar states only 50-60cc flush..eyebrows furrowed, looking at me like a moron, i show her MAR.. she shows me a pt. flow sheet (not the legal document). We agree that MAR should reflect flow sheet flushes, so needs clarification..back to gunked up gtube.. SODA POP!! --Gtube goes pop anyone?? Yikes!! Anyway, lucked out & she had standing order to flush w/coke; and she elaborates saying miralax works too; but to make long story short, although not a legit nursing intervention for all us newbies, it is done frequently by nurses before contacting an MD in many cases, per nurse... So, okay.. I assist at bedside, applying pressure with a towel to length of gtube as she tries to flush tube, so tube doesn't burst r/t ballooning/pressure of push/flush. She shows me every little artery clogging like curdle that appears; and about 30 mins later we cleared it. Now, back to the smoozing... I praised her expertise the entire time, thanked her for going out of her way and the extra time she was taking to teach me how its done, b/c noone else had; and apologizing for any inconvenience I had caused her, offering to help with other patients past my shift to make it up to her. I asked if I could come to her with any future questions, or if she had any feedback regarding my techniques, etc. Just as quickly, her furrowed brow turned to enthusiasm in no time; and she even went the extra mile, from every curdle...to how to avoid bursting the tube, why 50cc would never be enough, how and why to clarify orders, importance of pt. positioning, assessing for gastric irritation/pain during/after.. and no kidding I needed it the very next day, but I was able to use warm water in a similar way, having had a visual/actual on hands experience; and thanks to her instruction, I not only made it look easy, I gained a supporter! I even sought her out to ask her to evaluate how I did with the next pt.; and her pride was apparent by the smile on her face.. VALUE & WORTH! We all need to know we belong. And for all of us rookies and long-timers alike... remember tact!! Definition of tact? Consideration in dealing with others without giving offense!!
I do not feel it is necessarily the nursing students fault for the oft reception they might receive. In my former hospital, entirely different state. The staff would see the instructors come onto our units and ask what patient would be appropriate/ interesting for their students the next day. Those of us working the unit, would know in advance that we were having students, their schedule acted as resources if they needed. However their instructors were also on the unit at all times. That was before.
Currently, different state, different school of nursing. The students show up usually as report is starting. Sometimes the charge nurse lets us know we have been assigned students, sometimes they are just their. We rarely see their instructors, they are off elsewhere in the hospital with other students. Point , not easy being the instructor either. Rarely are the students allowed to chart on our unit. some if they are within a month of graduating might be able to pass some medications. That is once they call their instructors back to the unit so they can be supervised. Not the students fault at all. As to us, somedays I have not a clue what to do with the students as when I ask what type of patient are you interested in, little input, so I will say listen to report then you can choose who of the ones I have are of interest. Long and short of it. If the instructors here helped the students to show up with a bit of preparation, and giving us a list of what they can and cannot do. It would very much be helpful in being a mentor, as opposed to somedays. Smiling, and saying for the next two hours follow quickly, as this is the busiest time of day. I will try and answer questions as I am able. knowing full well this student is on my unit for one day, gosh knows when /if they will be there again. Feeling as ill prepared to help them, and sometimes resenting the additional work. again not the students fault, but do I really and truly have to point out as I am helping to pass out the breakfast trays in between giving meds, making the first assessments of my patient. Could they please pass a tray also? Maybe its me, maybe I am a crank somedays. I try not to show it. I never say rude things to them. If they ask a questions I will answer as best I can, but I am not a mind reader. I do not know what they have already experienced, or what they would like to experience unless they speak up..... ok, I am whining, must be the beginning of students back again. honest students I do remember what it was like to be a student even though it was long ago. I never waited to be asked to do something I would ask what could I do , I would mention I had not done this skill yet, and if it were available could I watch, or if I had already done it in front of my instructor, could I do it with the nurse on the unit now..... times changed I guess. not all students are work, some are great to be around, they are eager, they inspire the best in us, they have great ideas. others, well they huddle in the hallway, laughing, joking while call lights go off,, grrrrrrrrrrrrr
adendum, to the above, it did not show up when I edited .
Not to be the old albatross. I do mentor/ precept, many of the LPNs, coming to my unit. The difference is, I can develop a plan with them, find out their strengths and weaknesses, found out how best they learn. Whether it be, watching, discussion, video, demonstration first, hands on, any of the combination of. I can very much enjoy the process. I have learned much from new grads, nursese from other areas. As preceptor we are together for 3 months. I only wish we could be ask well prepared for the days the students show up in report. Maybe someone out their has some suggestions. I can always use a new point of view.
Thank GOD for this post. I am a new grad and I have to answer a resounding YES YES YES...nurses DO indeed eat their young. Especially the fake positive Prozac popping ICU types...
Specializes in Psych/Substance Abuse & School Clinics.
Unfortunately we're brought there or told to be there @ report so we can listen and learn. We're as disappointed as you are not to see our instructor all day---actually @ some facilities the instructor is not off elsewhere w/another student---she is not even on the premises or in the same city! The seasoned nurse wants our input, but you're in your comfort zone, while we're in a strange facility, surrounded by strangers(some not so nice), and scared to death that if we say one wrong thing we'll either be in trouble for something, look like the complete idiot we think we are, or be in your way. We would LOVE the chance to chart, pass meds, ask questions; but we're too busy trying to let you get your med pass done without holding you up. Most of the clinicals that I had, the nurse we were to "follow for the day" didn't ask if we wanted to help pass meds("we're too slow & they'd never get done"), or give us a choice in which pt. we'd like to help. The nurse would say to follow, watch, & stay out of the way. Myself personally, when trays came on the floor I helped pass them & fed pts. If a procedure was being done I would ask if I could step up & watch or help. At one facility a pt died & I asked if I could help with post-mortem care and was blessed to be able to do so. If I hadn't have asked, yes, I would have been out inthe hall with the rest of my classmates talking about it instead of getting to experience it. But I'm an old fart and don't mind speaking up! When we would be told we could leave @ (for instance) 3pm, I would ask my instructor and the nurse I was trailing, if I could stay until she got off & was never denied. Clinicals are what YOU and the STUDENT make of them. If you forget when you were in their shoes & the student is lazy then it makes for a miserably long day. As I told my instructor, I NEVER once had a single clinical day that I didn't learn and thoroughly enjoy. Most of the people in my class were in their 20s & just wanted to "make a lot of money", so they hated clinicals. I am 54 yrs old and have wanted to do this for probably more yrs than you've been alive, so I've LOVED every minute of school, clinicals, and yes---as of 8/8/08 getting my LPN licence. Same as you ALL don't eat your young, we're not all unmotivated, lazy, uncaring "children" just in it to make a buck. I personally,as corny as this may sound, feel that this the noblest profession of all -- nurses are the drs. backbone -- I want to help ones that want and need it and make myself & everyone else proud of the fact that I am a nurse!!!!!
The students show up usually as report is starting. Sometimes the charge nurse lets us know we have been assigned students, sometimes they are just their. We rarely see their instructors, they are off elsewhere in the hospital with other students. Point , not easy being the instructor either. Rarely are the students allowed to chart on our unit. some if they are within a month of graduating might be able to pass some medications. That is once they call their instructors back to the unit so they can be supervised. Not the students fault at all. As to us, somedays I have not a clue what to do with the students as when I ask what type of patient are you interested in, little input, so I will say listen to report then you can choose who of the ones I have are of interest. Long and short of it. If the instructors here helped the students to show up with a bit of preparation, and giving us a list of what they can and cannot do. It would very much be helpful in being a mentor, as opposed to somedays. Smiling, and saying for the next two hours follow quickly, as this is the busiest time of day. I will try and answer questions as I am able. knowing full well this student is on my unit for one day, gosh knows when /if they will be there again. Feeling as ill prepared to help them, and sometimes resenting the additional work. again not the students fault, but do I really and truly have to point out as I am helping to pass out the breakfast trays in between giving meds, making the first assessments of my patient. Could they please pass a tray also? Maybe its me, maybe I am a crank somedays. I try not to show it. I never say rude things to them. If they ask a questions I will answer as best I can, but I am not a mind reader. I do not know what they have already experienced, or what they would like to experience unless they speak up..... ok, I am whining, must be the beginning of students back again. honest students I do remember what it was like to be a student even though it was long ago. I never waited to be asked to do something I would ask what could I do , I would mention I had not done this skill yet, and if it were available could I watch, or if I had already done it in front of my instructor, could I do it with the nurse on the unit now..... times changed I guess. not all students are work, some are great to be around, they are eager, they inspire the best in us, they have great ideas. others, well they huddle in the hallway, laughing, joking while call lights go off,, grrrrrrrrrrrrr
For the new nurse who helped an experienced nurse do an intervention without a true order, be careful, you are resopnsible for your nursing practise and all of us work under the direct orders of a physician. Had something gone awry, both of you would have been culpable. It is okay to smooze, it is never okay to not follow hospital protocol,(written protocol). Your nonly legal defense is to have followed policy. nanacarol
The method of young eating on my unit is quite unique. They are polite, even smiling to your face. Then they gather at the nurses station and viciously gossip about you behind your back. Nothing is said to you. If you called me aside and told me where I am wanting as a nurse, you make a better nurse out of me, and gain my respect. Instead, I get to hear all their comments by someone who happend to overhear the gossip. Vicious cycle.
For the new nurse who helped an experienced nurse do an intervention without a true order, be careful, you are resopnsible for your nursing practise and all of us work under the direct orders of a physician. Had something gone awry, both of you would have been culpable. It is okay to smooze, it is never okay to not follow hospital protocol,(written protocol). Your nonly legal defense is to have followed policy. nanacarol
nurse430+yrs: Besides being culpable if something goes wrong; they could also be charged with practicing medicine without a license. :no::no:
Specializes in Psych/Substance Abuse & School Clinics.
I only did what I was able to legally and in my scope. Mainly I was able to watch and question and learn, not actually do. My point was that clinicals are what you make of them. They can be a real learning experience or you can allow the one's that enjoy eating their young to do so. I don't feel like everyone does, but there are definately ones out there that do so.
:no:
Zana2
132 Posts
In Britain ,you call in your link tutor. I never did it, but almost every other placement, one of my peers did have to call someone in. It steams, probably, from a mixture of lack of proper mentorship education, busy wards, personality clashes etc.
Unfortunately only once I did see measures being taken. My colleague was given another placement.
The system at my uni is like this: 4 weeks placements, at the end of which you produce for your portfolio (amongst million other things) a summative and a formative report written and signed by your mentor.You haven't got them, you don't pass the portfolio. Easy. The general consensus amongst my peers is that it's not worth reporting, it's only 4 weeks, just put your head down, do your outmost to achieve your learning agreements, practice, research, the rest will go in 4 weeks time. At the end of the module, you get to fill in a placement and module evaluation form, that's your chance to get it off your chest and pray and hope that the next poor student who's taking your place will have it easier and that Uni would have intervened and changed something.It's swim or sink. Out of 400 something at the beginning of the course, 150 have sank already in just 2 years. It's a tough world out there.
Oh, did I mention that there just aren't enough placements?