DNP required soon?

Specialties Doctoral

Published

"The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) has recently released a position statement calling for the Doctor of Nursing Practice (DNP) degree to be the terminal degree awarded for advanced practice nurses."

I've been reading some articles about the recent changes to the terminal degree for a CRNA. Does this basically mean that by 2015 many CRNA programs will be DNP instead of the Masters? What will happen to all those MSN program grads...will they have to go back for the DNP? Thanks in advance for any input.

Specializes in SICU.
The argument of misrepresentation as a basis for lower educational requirements is asinine.

Why would anyone be against CRNAs having higher education? CRNAs are here to administer anesthesia to the public and as such we should want the public to be as well cared for as possible. Anesthesiologists also care for the public and they either believe we can do a good job now (in which additional education is not needed and as such supervision should not be required) or they think we are not educated enough (therefore they should believe in furthering education and in the mean time be for supervision). Logically, there is not a category for pro-supervisioin and anti-education. In my opinion there is no good reason to be against higher education for anyone.

As far as the title goes I understand the concern about not confusing patients and deceiving them to believe that I am a medical doctor. I am not. But PhDs go by the title Dr and they are not medical doctors. Pharmacists are now PharmDs and I have met some of them that go by Dr. What about chiropractors, optomotrists, physical therapists, lawyers (doctorate of jurisprudence). All of them have some form of a doctoral degree and could be correctly identified as Doctor. If you earn the degree, you earn the title.

Perhaps our patients just need to be better educated about our profession and qualifications.

most people with their PhDs do, in fact, go by doctor but they certainly don't do so in a hospital setting. A person with a PhD in organic chemistry would not introduce themselves as Dr. So-and-so for obvious reasons.

I do understand that organic chemistry degrees are rarely seen in the medical setting attached to people that have less than an MD degree, or PhDs for that matter. (I am not saying that they don't exist or that people who do not have an MD are not smart enough to get a PhD......so get all of that rebuttal crap out of your system before responding).

There is a distinct problem with introducing oneself as Dr. SO-and-so when in fact they are not a medical doctor. We can all see the reasons for that.....avoid confusion of the patient and prevent the representation of yourself as a physician.

The other side is.....what is the point of getting a PhD if you can't say doctor? The point is to improve patient care and be the best anesthetist you can. We should police ourselves if we do want to say the Dr. title by adding the fact that you have an advanced nursing degree, the DNP, and you are a CRNA administering the anesthesia.

Since i am a nurse, i know all of the stuff that is going on with someone just by reading their badge, however, not everyone is as well versed in the health care hierarchy as we are....we owe it to all of our patients to prevent misrepresentation and discern between a DNP and an MD with every single introduction....if one chooses to use the Dr. title.

JMHO

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The argument of misrepresentation as a basis for lower educational requirements is asinine.

Why would anyone be against CRNAs having higher education? CRNAs are here to administer anesthesia to the public and as such we should want the public to be as well cared for as possible. Anesthesiologists also care for the public and they either believe we can do a good job now (in which additional education is not needed and as such supervision should not be required) or they think we are not educated enough (therefore they should believe in furthering education and in the mean time be for supervision). Logically, there is not a category for pro-supervisioin and anti-education. In my opinion there is no good reason to be against higher education for anyone.

As far as the title goes I understand the concern about not confusing patients and deceiving them to believe that I am a medical doctor. I am not. But PhDs go by the title Dr and they are not medical doctors. Pharmacists are now PharmDs and I have met some of them that go by Dr. What about chiropractors, optomotrists, physical therapists, lawyers (doctorate of jurisprudence). All of them have some form of a doctoral degree and could be correctly identified as Doctor. If you earn the degree, you earn the title.

Perhaps our patients just need to be better educated about our profession and qualifications.

Some of these that you have mentioned do not call themselves Doctor in a hospital setting. For example, the professor that has a docotorate in English does not walk into the hospital and call himself/herself doctor "So -n- So". I agree that patients need to be better educated... but somehow I dont see that coming fast enough. In the meantime, there has to be a distingiushing factor of Who's Who in the medical field. Oh, By the way, I have a friend that is a Doctor of Epidemiology and people are constantly asking her medical questions because they are confused about what type of doctor she is....She hates explaining so she just hand them her card and tells people to call her by her first name.. but around her collegues she is Doctor....

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Yes. From a patient's perspective if someone introduces themselves as doctor then they would construe that person to be a medical doctor.

I think if I had a PhD I would let my hospital collegues call me Dr if they wanted to. I would NOT introduce myself to a patient as a Dr. I would certainly have Phd proudly embroidried on my scrups or Lab Jacket.

Would I have Dr embroidried? Hmmm maybe not. Phd? Yep!

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Specializes in Telemetry/CVU/CICU/CVICU/Neuro-ICU/SICU.

Please!!! When will people wake up and realize that the word Doctor is not just for physicians. Why do people allow thier blood to boil at the thought of a nurse being called or having a doctoral degree. Why do people associate nurse with scum of the earth and doesn't deserve better. I know not everyone thinks this way (and Thank God), but the majority does. Why are people so jealous or resentful against nurses (especially those with higher education)? Wake up wake up wake up!! There are many nurses with doctoral degrees that are being called doctor. Many are at my school. Check out Emory University. Most of thier RN faculty have PhDs! I just don't understand why a nurse being called doctor means that thier chest is thumping! Please! It is not 1940! Any nurse that I meet in a hospital setting that has a PhD or DSN I will address as Dr. Nurse! Its common courtesy and respect. If they don't wish to be called such then I will say Ms. Mr. or whatever. These physicans are going to have to deal with it. Nurses are advancing thier education! Period! If chiropractors, OD's, etc. can call themselves doctor then so can a nurse with a DSN, DNAP, & PhD.

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...There are many nurses with doctoral degrees that are being called doctor. Many are at my school. Check out Emory University. Most of thier RN faculty have PhDs! I just don't understand why a nurse being called doctor means that thier chest is thumping! Please! It is not 1940! Any nurse that I meet in a hospital setting that has a PhD or DSN I will address as Dr. Nurse!...

My professors w/ PhDs called themslves doctor in the classroom...That's appropriate...

In the hospital setting, it is not appropriate...

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Specializes in SICU.
Please!!! When will people wake up and realize that the word Doctor is not just for physicians. Why do people allow thier blood to boil at the thought of a nurse being called or having a doctoral degree. Why do people associate nurse with scum of the earth and doesn't deserve better. I know not everyone thinks this way (and Thank God), but the majority does. Why are people so jealous or resentful against nurses (especially those with higher education)? Wake up wake up wake up!! There are many nurses with doctoral degrees that are being called doctor. Many are at my school. Check out Emory University. Most of thier RN faculty have PhDs! I just don't understand why a nurse being called doctor means that thier chest is thumping! Please! It is not 1940! Any nurse that I meet in a hospital setting that has a PhD or DSN I will address as Dr. Nurse! Its common courtesy and respect. If they don't wish to be called such then I will say Ms. Mr. or whatever. These physicans are going to have to deal with it. Nurses are advancing thier education! Period! If chiropractors, OD's, etc. can call themselves doctor then so can a nurse with a DSN, DNAP, & PhD.

These individuals you speak of are more than welcome to introduce/refer to themselves as Dr. So-n-so in an educational environment......be it in the Nursing school/college or on even on the unit as your clinical instructor. You would be hard pressed to find an MD who would be offended by a PhD prepared nursing clinical instructor called Dr. So-n-so by their respective students.

Now, this thread is about the DNP prepared CRNA and these individuals introducing themselves as Dr. SO-n-so to the patient during pre-op procedures. IMO, I find this inappropriate as it strongly suggests to the patients that these PhD CRNAs are anesthesiologists.

If we all keep in mind that we would be pursuing a DNP for the benefit of our patients, we should not have a problem with clarifying, once again, for our patients, that we are a doctorally prepared CRNA and not a medical doctor should we choose to use the title Dr. So-n-so.

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Its the fact that word doctor in a hospital defines a role in the patients provision of care. If a non medical doctor walks up to a patient and introduces themselves as Dr so n so then more than likely that patient will believe them to be a Medical Dr.

It has nothing to do with nurse bashing. lol. Wow. Nothing of the sort. It's all about the patient. That's exactly where our perspectives and interest should lie. Not a selfish need for respect and a title.

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To each their own......

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Though I'm quite sure this debate will continue, I'll cash in my two cents...

The goal of the DNAP is to improve patient safety and the provision of effective anesthesia, correct? Correct. Rather than focusing on whether or not the physician is offended or we are misrepresenting ourselves, let's go back to the patient. We suppose patients would be confused that "doctor" implies "physician." We suppose. Are we underestimating our patients' abilities to accept and synthesize change? Perhaps. Is this an opportunity to educate both patients and HCPs that nurses are doctors and doctors are doctors and scientists are doctors? Sure...

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If the debate here is about calling CRNAs "Doctor" based on the degree, I'm fine without that higher level of education and just being referred to as "Master"...yes, that has a nice ring to it

:twocents:

:trout:

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Typically it's an online degree, with the exception of four very intense classroom weeks a year. There is a significant emphasis on health policy. Check it out!

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i remember how enraged nurses became when a medical student who was also a phd answered a page. a page! (Not, Hi Mrs. Jones, I'm Dr. Smith and will taking care of you today) with 'doctor.'

ah, hypocrisy.

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