DNP the new PhD

llg, PhD, RN · Feb 28, 2011

If you don't want to teach ... or be a CNS ... or be an NP ... then what type of other roles were you expecting to find for DNP's? Those are the major roles that the degree was developed for (along with CNM and CRNA roles). What else were you expecting?

enoRN · Feb 28, 2011

I thought DNP was research, clinical and possible teaching, meaning I 'll be more useful in a hospital setting than a PhD which is research, school and teaching. But with the job postings I've seen it looks like DNP and PhD are having the same descriptions.

llg, PhD, RN · Feb 28, 2011

The PhD is still the "scholarly" degree, focused on preparing nurse scholars for research and graduate faculty positions.

The DNP is the "practice" doctorate, focused on the preparation of advanced practice nurses who are educated in the application of research, conduct of program evaluations, etc. -- the types of work that people working in a practice environment might do. DNP's are also being prepared to teach undergraduate nursing students. The degree was developed to provide doctoral level education to advanced practice nurses (e.g. NP's, CNS's, CNM's, and CRNA's) who did not want the heavy research/theory/philosophy focus of a PhD and all that entails. Using them as undergraduate faculty also seems to be a good fit -- with more emphasis on practice and less emphasis on research.

allnurses Guide · Mar 7, 2011

My simplified explanation would be:

PhDs do the research.

DNPs use the research to improve practice.

enoRN · Mar 8, 2011

My simplified explanation would be:
PhDs do the research.
DNPs use the research to improve practice.

By teaching others?

llg, PhD, RN · Mar 8, 2011

DNP's are considered good candidates for teaching positions because they have clinical expertise, a clinical focus, and the ability to help students learn to use scientific evidence in practice.

I don't see why anyone would have a problem with that. Do you have some objection as to why a DNP should NOT be teaching?

enoRN · Mar 8, 2011

DNP's are considered good candidates for teaching positions because they have clinical expertise, a clinical focus, and the ability to help students learn to use scientific evidence in practice.
I don't see why anyone would have a problem with that. Do you have some objection as to why a DNP should NOT be teaching?

Not that I do, but if DNP is all about teaching then why would a bedside nurse want to be one. I mean a bedside nurse who wants to become an NP, CNS for improvement in patient care.

elkpark · Mar 8, 2011

Not that I do, but if DNP is all about teaching then why would a bedside nurse want to be one. I mean a bedside nurse who wants to become an NP, CNS for improvement in patient care.

I don't think llg is saying (not to put words in her mouth :)) that the DNP is all about teaching, just that DNP-prepared advanced practice nurses are certainly qualified and eligible to teach if they want to, just as MSN-prepared advanced practice nurses have always had the option of teaching. I know that, when I was going back to school to become a psych CNS, part of my motivation was that I wanted to also teach, in addition to practicing clinically (and I have taught at different times over the years since then).

Teaching and clinical practice are certainly not mutually exclusive -- you don't have to make a commitment to one or the other -- and I also think it's certainly valid to say that teaching nursing students, whether at the undergrad or graduate level, is a form of improving nursing practice.

I think that part of the issue may be that colleges and universities are more enthusiastic about embracing the DNP idea than healthcare employers in the clinical realm. Are you looking for job postings for clinical positions for advanced practice positions in general (and not finding them), or just positions that specify they are looking for a DNP? If you're looking for clinical positions that specifically state they're looking for a DNP-prepared person, rather than generally saying that they're looking for a PNP, FNP, CRNA, CNS (in whatever specialty), etc., I would be surprised if any healthcare employers are posting positions that way. What they care about is the licensure and certification, and I think it will be some time (if ever) before they start specifying that they want one particular degree over another in those positions.

msn10 · Mar 8, 2011

I agree with elkpark but I will add just one additional thought.

According to new guidelines that the NLN is considering, a PhD will still be the terminal degree. DNP might be a doctorate in nursing practice, but a scholar must have a PhD. This doesn't mean much if you are going to teach undergrads and you are comfortable as an adjunct, but as it stands, it is unheard of to get tenure or full professorship without a PhD. To most people that is not a big deal.

One of my degrees is in nursing education and it was extremely helpful for teaching because it taught me how to teach - creating curriculums, teaching methods, proper test writing, etc., along with a great deal of research to prepare me for a PhD program. A DNP has some research, but the others are correct, it is meant to be used for practice not necessarily teaching.

llg, PhD, RN · Mar 8, 2011

Thanks, elkpark and msn10. I agree with your posts completely.

The DNP is a good degree to have if you are interested in a clinically-focused doctoral degree (as opposed to a research-focused one). And it is sufficient for most people teaching undergraduates -- particularly for those people teaching the clinically-focused courses in which the emphasis is on the clinical care of the patients. However, for graduate faculty, research positions, tenure track positions, etc., the PhD (with its research focus) is still the preferred degree.

llg, PhD, RN-BC (I thought I should add the letters after my name here for the record.)

allnurses Guide · Mar 8, 2011

By teaching others?

You're quite hung up on the teaching thing. No, that is not what I meant.

I meant that the research is used and essentially "translated" by the DNP for use in clinical practice. As an example, we have DNPs employed in the hospital who work in QA/QI roles whereby they write practice guidelines, do chart reviews for compliance with best practice guidelines, chair staff committees focused on practice improvements... the list is reasonably endless. Of course in a bedside role the DNP could be extremely useful too - clinical experts involved in direct patient care are a good thing.