Will you work during a Pandemic? - page 11
admin note: we just added a poll to this thread today, april 25, 2008, please take a second and vote in the poll so we can have a graphical representation of the responses. thanks scenario: ... Read More
Mar 30, '08Occupation: visiting nurse Specialty: Too many to list ; From: US ; Joined: Mar '06; Posts: 5,909; Likes: 1,741Quote from 4gr8greensI have not seen any legal ramifications written anywhere, not even in individualMy question may have been covered already, but I need to ask it.
Does anyone know what the legal ramifications of not showing up for work are? Does it depend what state you work in?
Any links would be greatly appreciated.
states pandemic plans.
However, individual facilities do have some written warnings...
My new job has a disaster plan. Team A relieves Team B. No shows will be terminated.
Of course, not going could save your life when they run out of PPE.
You can always get another job.
They will still need nurses when it is all over.
Mar 31, '08Occupation: visiting nurse Specialty: Too many to list ; From: US ; Joined: Mar '06; Posts: 5,909; Likes: 1,741Potential Penalties for Health Care Professionals Who Refuse to Work During a Pandemic
4gr8greens, you probably already saw this link at flutrackers? I just found it today.
We should probably look into this further, and see if other states have similiar
emergency health powers acts, and exactly what they expect of HCW.
Quote from www.flutrackers.com
Some states, such as Maryland and South Carolina, have enacted laws that subject HCPs who refuse to work during a pandemic to penalties in a far broader range of circumstances than those described above. Many of these laws are based on the Model State Emergency Health Powers Act (MSEHPA), which authorizes public health officials to order HCPs "to assist in the performance of vaccination, treatment, examination or testing of any individual as a condition of licensure, authorization, or the ability to continue to function as a health care provider in this State." Some states, including Maryland, have gone further than the MSEHPA by authorizing fines or imprisonment of HCPs who disobey orders to work.
Apr 1, '08Specialty: 29 year(s) of experience in med/surg, cardiac ; From: NY ; Joined: Jul '07; Posts: 17; Likes: 7Thanks for the link.....yes, I did see it a while ago and forgot where it was. :imbar.
Still a question. Does every state have their own "set of rules" reguarding working during an infectious disease outbreak? I would like to believe most of us would report to work AS LONG AS APPROPRIATE PPE were available. This is my sticking point.
Apr 2, '08Occupation: visiting nurse Specialty: Too many to list ; From: US ; Joined: Mar '06; Posts: 5,909; Likes: 1,741Penalties for health care workers who don't show up in a pandemic?
I am posting the full link to Effect Measure on this subject with comments by
There is also a link to a discussion at fluwiki in the comments, and I am going
to post it here also because it's a great discussion. Susan C and DemFromCt are
physicians that post at fluwiki. Grattan Woodson, MD also commenting there
has his own website on pandemic preparation for the public, and his thoughts are
I hope that you enjoy these links, and note the reference to allnurses.com.
It means this thread has probably been read by someone at CDC or HHS or some
other govt body. We need for them to hear our concerns.
Apr 2, '08Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 14,901; Likes: 8,058EMTs and Paramedics face danger every day. They are required to respond to calls if available. We were taught that if there was a HAZMAT call, and the victim was trapped, to stay upwind and not to help the victim unless it was deemed safe to do so. How is it any different in nursing? Government has proven time and time again it doesn't live up to its promises; just like your place of employment doesn't cover you fully if there's a lawsuit. So as much as I love to help people, I would vote no in this case. PS...but since I do have a compromising disease anyway, I would be one of the first ones to die, so would be no good anyway.Last edit by FranEMTnurse on Apr 2, '08 : Reason: Needs more info
Apr 2, '08Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 14,901; Likes: 8,058Quote from suesquatchi love this post. and i live in possom holler, pa. seriously though, do we not remember when the sars epidemic hit canada and had originated in taiwan? several nurses who put their lives on the line to care for the critically ill, and caught it. so so solly, but self-preservation prevails.for those thinking that individuals prepare, what the heck can we do? i got my annual flu shot, i already avoid crowds because i live in chicken fart, ny, and we have canned goods in.
Apr 2, '08Occupation: Nurse Specialty: Gyn Onc,OB,L&D, HH/Hospice/Pallliative ; Joined: Oct '07; Posts: 843; Likes: 669NO!!, I am suppose to believe promises from the government?????? Will they promise me I will live through it??? I'll be with my dh and kids, thanks anyway.........
Apr 2, '08Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 14,901; Likes: 8,058Quote from GojuI read the blog, and the ideas for preparedness are very good. There is a concern on my part though. Do we have enough time? I know for a fact that the foreign countries that dealt with pandemics in the recent past did not tell us all. They didn't report how many healthcare personnel died, which is definitely a concern. The most news we received in the US was how well cared for the victims were and I have no doubt that they were. But we ourselves just got through a severe flu outbreak. Thankfully, even though I am chronically ill, I did all I could do. I stayed home and only went to my appts, and took my meds as ordered via the help where I live.Ms. Patton, President of the American Nurses Association participated in an online blog for HHS about Pandemic Flu. here
It is a fascinating read. I implore all here to write to her and ask her help in securing Proper PPE and guidelines for nurses dealing with Pandemic Flu.
Rebecca M. Patton, MSN, RN, CNOR
Rebecca M. Patton MSN, RN, CNOR, of Lakewood, Ohio was elected to serve a two-year term as president of the American Nurses Association in June 2006. ANA is the nation's largest professional nursing organization representing the major health policy, practice, and workplace issues of 2.9 million registered nurses (RNs) in the United States. A nurse since 1980, Patton was most recently the Director of periOperative Services for EMH Regional Healthcare System in Cleveland, Ohio. She is also a member of the Editorial Board of OJIN: Online Journal of Issues in Nursing, and has written chapters for books on medical-surgical nursing and articles for nursing journals. Patton has a Bachelors of Science in nursing from Kent State University and a Masters of Nursing from Case Western Reserve University. She has held numerous ANA positions including treasurer (1998-2002), Board of Directors member (1994-1998), and delegate to the ANA House of Delegates (2003-2005).
My real concern is the people in the military. If the medical personnel doesn't show up for work, then the reserves will be called in. Just like they were during the 911 attack clean-up, etc. I often wonder how many of them now have cancer or chronic respiratory diseases.
Apr 2, '08Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 14,901; Likes: 8,058Quote from finsI lived with a family who's male HOH said his mom treated a lot of people when that came around, and she put a block of camphor around everyone's necks. None of her family members got it, and neither did she. The doctor at the time told her she was saving more people than he was and told her to keep up the good work. I used to put Vicks vaporub on my chest when I got sick, but am not able to breathe camphor due to my current illnesses. Oh well, it's just flesh that's gonna go sometime, anyway.OK, I think that WAY too many people have watched the Mad Max films. Take a look at the Spanish flu pandemic of 1918. This is a pretty good model for a worst-case pandemic. Transmission rates of up to 50%. Mortality rates of 2-20%. Total dead worldwide 50-100 million. And yet we didn't have lawless bands of nomads wandering across some post-apocalyptic wasteland. Read the wikipedia article if you want details.
A pandemic on the order of 1918 would be bad, yes. It would certainly have far reaching consequences on the economy. But get a grip people - Lord Humungus is not coming for your oil.
Apr 2, '08Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '99; Posts: 2,950; Likes: 620Quote from GojuMy family is quarantine and they are ordering me to break quarantine to go tho work? Now what happens if I decide not to break the government ordered quarantine do they arrest me? It would have to be house arrest because we are quarantined.Scenario:
H5N1 (the bird flu) mutates to become efficient at transmitting Human to human causing a Pandemic, with a case fatality rate of 60% and with 80% of the cases in the 0-40 year old age range.
Hospitals will be quickly overrun. Hospital staff shortages are 50%. The Government orders all nurses to work. There is not enough Personal Protection Equipment (N95 masks, gloves, goggles, tamiflu, vax, etc)
Home quarantines become common (in the Fed plans).
Your family is also quarantined in your home. You are running out of food and the Government promises you will be "taken care of" if you report to work.
Will you go?
I guess it doesn't matter much one way or another since 60% are going to die anyway and there will be only 20% under age 40 left. Actually if my family is quarantined that would be me since I do not live with any other family members. Guess that means I have the flu. Nope I do not report to work in that case.
Who makes this garbage up?
Apr 2, '08Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '99; Posts: 2,950; Likes: 620But I am quarantined I do not live with anyone that means I have it. I do not work sick. Sorry
Apr 3, '08Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '99; Posts: 2,950; Likes: 620With all due respect indigogirl I know this is a passion of yours. Your long running post on the research you do shows that. However, I just can't get excited over hysterical speculations of what might happen some day. If it happen I will deal with it then in what ever way seems appropriate at the time.
It is unlikely IMHO that the senerio presented here will be even close to the actual senerio.
I have been in Gov service. All of the disaster end of life as we know it senerio that we played out were pure fantastic speculation of what might be worse case.
The stories were all made up in the imagination.
You can execute me for all I care. It it really comes to what you describe, cause there is not going to be much to live for is there?
Apr 3, '08Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '99; Posts: 2,950; Likes: 620Quote from krisoIt is because it is hysteriaI posted an article in the breakroom of the hospital about this very thing. I was trying to light a fire and get people to think about the possibility of a pandemic and exactly what would be expected of us nurses. I wanted them to question our administration and infection control dept. and see what kind of game plan was in the makes.
My efforts fell flat as a pancake.