Direct-entry MSN programs

shelebelle · Feb 20, 2006

Hi everyone!

This is my first posting ever. I'm coming into this discussion late, but would like to share info about pass rates at Seattle University's accelerated MSN program. I am in my first year right now, and will be taking the NCLEX in August. My group is the 4th cohort and so far, the previous 3 groups have all passed the 1st time for a 100% pass rate. However, this makes us nervous. We all wonder "Will I be the person who ruins this trend?". Heheh. :eek:

cfrimer · Feb 20, 2006

Regarding the anti-DE sentiments...

I have sensed this, too, from reading discussion boards (I haven't started my DE program yet). However, as I was making my decision to apply for DE, a veteran nurse whom I shadowed for a day was very encouraging about DE when I was wavering between accelerated BSN and DE. So, there's a real-life data point.

At first I always feel a bit scared when I read vitriolic anti-DE comments, but then the question occurs to me: Can't the same critique about lack of experience be made of any new RN? Every nurse starts out with no experience and has to build it over time. I'm guessing that's why there's that whole "nurses eat their young" stereotype floating around.

Furthermore, if NPs aren't going to be able to get jobs as NPs right out of the gate, then guess what? They'll get jobs as RNs and build up the experience they need to be "better qualified" to be an NP. No problemo!

It seems to me that DE programs are, simply, for people who aren't yet nurses but know from the beginning that they want to be advanced practitioners and decide to go for the gusto immediately. I didn't decide to go the DE route because I want something for nothing or believe that I can "jump the queue" and extend myself beyond my abilities. And I'd bet that other DE students are the same!

I second lovingpecola's sentiment: Can't we all just get along?

Editorial Team / Admin · Feb 20, 2006

I suppose we, as seasoned advanced practice nurses, want ya'll to be aware of the possibility you will not easily find a job in this role without adequate skills and critical thinking that can only come with experience. Yes, the education preparing you as NP is probably adequate. But, no RN experience for many can be a hinderance.

I mean no disrespect with this. Only FYI.

lovingpecola · Feb 20, 2006

:yeahthat: Ditto. Well articulated!

I am saying to DITTO to cfrimer, I guess me and the person before me posted at the same time...

Jess RN · Feb 21, 2006

The whole DE vs RN before MSN has been done so many times on these boards. I too plan to work at the bedside for a while (and maybe permanently if I like it!) to gain experience. I don't worry too much about the nurses who will think I'm a fraud because of what program I graduated from. :chuckle

For me, choosing a DE program was a practical decision. I guess I could have jumped through the beuracratic application hoops for my local cc and then waited for 18m-2yrs before starting nursing classes. But at the time I figured with the time-value of money, my more expensive DE program would pay for itself when I started working (as an RN) earlier than I would have been able to if I went the cc route.

Also, because of the non-merit based application proccess at my cc- it was actually *easier* for me to get accepted into DE programs, where my prior academic performance, test scores, rec letters were actually weighted. I got into the three DE programs I applied to- but from my cc I got a form letter telling me I needed to take Eng comp. and college math before they would put me on the waitlist for their nursing program. They didn't seem to read my college transcript at all (I was an English *major* for crying out loud- and I had taken math as an undergrad and then statistics as a pre-req for DE programs recently). Considering this cc has an atrocious rate of nursing students flunking out of their program- this non-merit based application process doesn't seem to be working too well for them. I know not all ccs operate their admissions process this way- but many many have looong waitlists- and it seems like if you are willing to wait it out- you can get a spot.

I personally think there are too many entries to practice in nursing- and this sets the profession up for devisiveness. For a profession that wants to be viewed as "professionals", I think that the minimum entry to practice should be a BSN. We require a bachelor's degree to teach kindegarten, but not to practice nursing. (No slam on teachers there- I think their work is so important and admirable) If we want to be seen as professionals, we need to have the credentials to back it up- and we need to support our own, not eat them. :chuckle

-Jess (climbing into my flame retardant suit now)

elizabells, BSN, RN · Feb 21, 2006

Do NOT engage w/people in this discussion. Seriously. It's way more trouble than it's worth. NO ONE is going to change their minds, and it's just a bunch of aggro you don't need. I could cite you a study right now that says ADN nurses are unsafe. I could probably find one that says ADN nurses are safer. ADN/BSN/DE is not a fight worth getting into, I promise.

And Laura, if you read this before your test, make sure you know the date and bill number of the foster care laws.

Jess RN · Feb 21, 2006

Do NOT engage w/people in this discussion. Seriously. It's way more trouble than it's worth. NO ONE is going to change their minds, and it's just a bunch of aggro you don't need. I could cite you a study right now that says ADN nurses are unsafe. I could probably find one that says ADN nurses are safer. ADN/BSN/DE is not a fight worth getting into, I promise.

You are absolutely right elizabells. Sorry for going off on my little tirade guys.

-Jess

elizabells, BSN, RN · Feb 21, 2006

You are absolutely right elizabells. Sorry for going off on my little tirade guys.
-Jess

Oh, nononno, not you, jess! I was just trying to save next year's class the frustration I had. I've even had clinical instructors (who, y'know, WORK FOR MY SCHOOL) get shirty about it.

Jess RN · Feb 21, 2006

Oh, nononno, not you, jess! I was just trying to save next year's class the frustration I had. I've even had clinical instructors (who, y'know, WORK FOR MY SCHOOL) get shirty about it.

No- I didn't think you meant me- but the less "thread-time" this kind of stuff is given- the better. And we *definitely* don't need another "entry to practice minimum" debate! :roll

-Jess

bruinlaura · Feb 21, 2006

And Laura, if you read this before your test, make sure you know the date and bill number of the foster care laws.

Thanks man!

elizabells, BSN, RN · Feb 21, 2006

Thanks man!

Not a problem! She specifically denied to us that we had to know those, and then it was on our test. Eeeeeevil.

Brian, ASN, RN · Mar 4, 2006

Please note this thread has been closed, and a new thread is opened here:

https://allnurses.com/forums/f223/direct-entry-msn-program-2-a-144628.html

Please keep the discussion on topic. Thanks