Differences Between LPNs/LVNs and RNs

LPNer · Mar 27, 2005

The basic difference is that RN's learn more "theory" which of course takes more time in school. RN's can go into management positions; there are fewer management positions available for LVN's.
I am an RN, but please do not any LPN/LVN's take offense. LVN's typically have more "floor experience" but not always, especially in Critical Care you must be an RN. As ADON of two facilities, I have worked with many LVN's that I had the highest respect for and would be comfortable and confident in their nursing skills and ability to care for myself or family members.
I hope this helps. I repeat, please do not anyone be offended at my comments. I have the highest respect for anyone in the nursing profession as it is very hard and demanding work. (Excluding those few lacking skills and compassion to care for patients).
Good Luck and the best to you.
Caye

I don't see how anyone could be offended by your remarks.

I might add, and I hope you are not offended, that theory can be learned outside a formal classroom. (even the bridge programs achknowledge that) and just because a nurse has not paid for the college credits, does not mean s/he has not learned the material.

That has been my entire arguement.

It has become the requirement in this country for anything learned to be proven by college credits. Healthcare can not afford that, as nurses, we should all work together to find a better way than formal education. (Though there is a need for a good mix of formally educated nurses and nurses with on-the-job learning) College credits, costing upwards of $200. (that doesn't include miscelaneous fees) to prove you have learned what you need to know to be a great, competant nurse will not take nursing into the future with a very "green" outlook.

I do not understand why so many can not see this.

There are LPNs who will never be capable of provding any more than basic nursing care because they do not want to know "why." This however, should not stop those of us who want to know "why" for everything that comes past us. We should not be penalized and held back to basic bedside care because we lack the resources to prove our knowledge with college credits. Now, no matter how many years of experience and no matter how much an LPN knows, s/he is not an RN and there must be some definition there. RNs do need to be at least financially rewarded for the extra formal education as well as have advancement opps available that are not available to LPNs no matter how capable they are.

Oh well, thanks for listening. Maybe someday, before I die, I will see this change happening! Have a long time to give to that because I don't plan on dieing any time soon! :)

Jo Dirt · Mar 27, 2005

Not to be snippy....but why become an R.N. if the info that you LEARNED to get into the role, you're "yawning" at. The whole reason behind the greater education (of becoming an RN) is that you learn WHY you are doing what you're doing, not just to DO. I don't think there's any yawning in that. *scratching head*

Oh come on now...lighten up! I think he/she was referring to the management aspect of their education anyway.

I've been an LPN four years and I'll graduate from an ASN program very soon and the only real difference I can see is there are more job opportunities for RN's than LPN's.

I'm going to immediately go for a bachelor's degree because I want to eventually go for NP.

It all has to do with job opportunities. That, and, deservedly or not, people will give you more credibility if you are an RN, though this certainly is not a guarantee a person knows what they are doing. The best nurse I've ever seen is an LPN, and I have seen some RN's who don't have the sense God gave a goose.

CA CoCoRN, RN · Mar 28, 2005

...and just because a nurse has not paid for the college credits, does not mean s/he has not learned the material.
That has been my entire arguement.
It has become the requirement in this country for anything learned to be proven by college credits... to prove you have learned what you need to know...
...Now, no matter how many years of experience and no matter how much an LPN knows, s/he is not an RN and there must be some definition there.

I suppose it's accurate to say that I do NOT understand your argument. Any educational system is built on proving what you know...leading to grades in courses thusly to degrees granted. That's what matriculation is. That holds true not only is this country, but worldwide. Proving what you know, in order to do it, is a result of industrialism.

That's how any PROFESSIONAL field should be. You SHOULD have to prove what you know, whether you are a Computer Programmer obtaining certification in Microsoft, C++, SQL, etc or an RN or other nurse or healthcare practitioner.

Just because I know an awful lot about Word, Excel, that I learned on my own...does NOT mean that I should be granted a certification in Computer Software Proficiency. I should be made to PROVE it to a set standard.

That's the point of licensure: you have proven via a standardized (non subjective method) that you have the minimal proficiency to function in whatever role.

It should be no other way...otherwise you degrade the definition of profession.

It's unfortunate that some may not have the funds to go to school. However, if one's will is strong enough, you will get to whereever you want to go.

I paid "through the nose" to go to a prestigious, reputable institution because I wanted it THAT BAD.

Anything you want is worth sacrificing for, right? Right.

Excuses should be thrown out at some point...if it's what one really wants.

LPNer · Mar 28, 2005

I suppose it's accurate to say that I do NOT understand your argument. Any educational system is built on proving what you know...leading to grades in courses thusly to degrees granted. That's what matriculation is. That holds true not only is this country, but worldwide. Proving what you know, in order to do it, is a result of industrialism.
That's how any PROFESSIONAL field should be. You SHOULD have to prove what you know, whether you are a Computer Programmer obtaining certification in Microsoft, C++, SQL, etc or an RN or other nurse or healthcare practitioner.
Just because I know an awful lot about Word, Excel, that I learned on my own...does NOT mean that I should be granted a certification in Computer Software Proficiency. I should be made to PROVE it to a set standard.
That's the point of licensure: you have proven via a standardized (non subjective method) that you have the minimal proficiency to function in whatever role.
It should be no other way...otherwise you degrade the definition of profession.
It's unfortunate that some may not have the funds to go to school. However, if one's will is strong enough, you will get to whereever you want to go.
I paid "through the nose" to go to a prestigious, reputable institution because I wanted it THAT BAD.
Anything you want is worth sacrificing for, right? Right.
Excuses should be thrown out at some point...if it's what one really wants.

I am not saying anyone should recieve college credit or recognition for knowledge not gained through achedamia. I am simply saying healthcare in this country, nursing in particular, needs a system where better use of LPNs can be found. Use based on acquired knowledge outside the classroom. I do not think LPNs should be allowed to challenge the RN boards, any more than an advanced practice RN should be allowed to challenge medical boards. Neither of those makes any sense.

But rather certifications that LPNs can test for and become elegable for more responsibilities on the unit (only the type unit she has tested for so if as an ortho nurse I was pulled to telemetry I could not function further than any other LPN lacking certification.)

We must have a more cost effective way to get good nurses on the floor and allowing for "advanced practice" LPNs is an excellent method of doing so. This is my only point.

By the way, all the will in the world will not pay for education, it takes money. Student loans might help, but they must be paid back, and that means so many women (and men) with dependant children to send to college may not be able to afford it.

I can finally afford it myself, at 50. However, I have a generous case of degenerative problems that would not allow me the opportunity to pay it back while still working, so going through the pain of working (most times I miss a day out of every pay period because of the pain) and going to school on top of that is something I have chosen not to do. Bummer.

By the way, I have been matriculated. I know what it is. At least I am relatively certain it hasn't changed since the mid 80s when I was all but done with my ADN the first time :). That's when my first husband died and I found it difficult to raise 3 boys, work full time and go to school all at the same time. A better woman than I probably could have done it though, you just told me that.

Well, I am out of this thread, it seems there is no discussion as I am repeating myself over and over while others simply keep saying why LPNs are not RNs. Well, DAH.

caye · Mar 28, 2005

Boy I seemed to have hit a nerve. I was simply responding to "The Commuter" who asked for "opinions" and I was just expressing one. I repeat, I have worked with many LVN's that I have the highest respect for and would trust them to provide care for myself and/or family member without question because I know they are skillful, caring and compassionate.

Of course all knowledge and skills are to be utilized or "proven". All Nurses should be competent. Sorry if I offended you; I was trying to be helpful to "The Commuter".

Caye

I suppose it's accurate to say that I do NOT understand your argument. Any educational system is built on proving what you know...leading to grades in courses thusly to degrees granted. That's what matriculation is. That holds true not only is this country, but worldwide. Proving what you know, in order to do it, is a result of industrialism.
That's how any PROFESSIONAL field should be. You SHOULD have to prove what you know, whether you are a Computer Programmer obtaining certification in Microsoft, C++, SQL, etc or an RN or other nurse or healthcare practitioner.
Just because I know an awful lot about Word, Excel, that I learned on my own...does NOT mean that I should be granted a certification in Computer Software Proficiency. I should be made to PROVE it to a set standard.
That's the point of licensure: you have proven via a standardized (non subjective method) that you have the minimal proficiency to function in whatever role.
It should be no other way...otherwise you degrade the definition of profession.
It's unfortunate that some may not have the funds to go to school. However, if one's will is strong enough, you will get to whereever you want to go.
I paid "through the nose" to go to a prestigious, reputable institution because I wanted it THAT BAD.
Anything you want is worth sacrificing for, right? Right.
Excuses should be thrown out at some point...if it's what one really wants.

LPNer · Mar 28, 2005

Boy I seemed to have hit a nerve. I was simply responding to "The Commuter" who asked for "opinions" and I was just expressing one. I repeat, I have worked with many LVN's that I have the highest respect for and would trust them to provide care for myself and/or family member without question because I know they are skillful, caring and compassionate.
Of course all knowledge and skills are to be utilized or "proven". All Nurses should be competent. Sorry if I offended you; I was trying to be helpful to "The Commuter".
Caye

It was my fault, I have, for years been trying to get attention paid to LPNs who ,for whatever reason, are not returning to school for their RN. I speak this opinion at every possible opportunity.

There is a small and growing number of us and I guess we (me here) get a little over-zelous sometimes. It is a very sensitive subject. I understand that, and for many RNs who really sacraficed to get where they are it can be down right insulting. I do not mean to be insulting to anyone but I do want to see LPNs thrive, not dissolved. I want to see LPNs permitted certifications of specialty which would allow them a broader scope of practice.

I am sorry for being so forceful and for upsetting people, it is a good cause for both nurses and our pts, I just wish more could see it and bacome active in their own BONs to further this cause.

caye · Mar 28, 2005

Wow, I respond to a request for an "opinion" and get attacked. I am so very sorry for the loss of your husband, especially while you were trying to get through school. Of course you had to stop and take care of yourself and family. I admire all students. I know it is hard to raise a family and go to school, especially in this profession. While I was in school I had two rebellious teenage daughters causing me grief. My youngest daughter was 12 at the time and was running away from home constantly. I never knew where my child was. She was gone one time for TWO weeks and I didn't know if she was alive or dead. It was an extremely difficult time without school. I also know about dealing with death. Two years ago my sister died after an 18 month battle with metastatic lung cancer; last March my Brother had a GI bleed, went to the VA hospital, went into respiratory arest and was intubated and put on a ventilator and was brain dead. His heart stopped when they were preparing to d/c the vent;My Mother had Alzheimer's Disease and I was POA for medical care and had to place her in a locked unit. She also had Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma, was placed on Hospice and died last August (5 months after my Brother). I have had to stop working to take care of things. One time it was for a year.

I understand also about dealing with your own heath issues. I have chronic neck pain/muscle spasms and fibromyalgia.

I'm not trying to whine or complain, just to encourage everyone. I just responded to a request for "opinions" trying to help the person that asked the question and I get sandblasted. I did not say that a better woman than you could have finished school. I would never say that. I am a caring and compassionate person; that is why I love nursing.

I have been a member of this site for one day and tried to help when questions have been asked, but I don't know if this is worth it. Life is so hard as it is. I just want to work together.

Caye

I am not saying anyone should recieve college credit or recognition for knowledge not gained through achedamia. I am simply saying healthcare in this country, nursing in particular, needs a system where better use of LPNs can be found. Use based on acquired knowledge outside the classroom. I do not think LPNs should be allowed to challenge the RN boards, any more than an advanced practice RN should be allowed to challenge medical boards. Neither of those makes any sense.
But rather certifications that LPNs can test for and become elegable for more responsibilities on the unit (only the type unit she has tested for so if as an ortho nurse I was pulled to telemetry I could not function further than any other LPN lacking certification.)
We must have a more cost effective way to get good nurses on the floor and allowing for "advanced practice" LPNs is an excellent method of doing so. This is my only point.
By the way, all the will in the world will not pay for education, it takes money. Student loans might help, but they must be paid back, and that means so many women (and men) with dependant children to send to college may not be able to afford it.
I can finally afford it myself, at 50. However, I have a generous case of degenerative problems that would not allow me the opportunity to pay it back while still working, so going through the pain of working (most times I miss a day out of every pay period because of the pain) and going to school on top of that is something I have chosen not to do. Bummer.
By the way, I have been matriculated. I know what it is. At least I am relatively certain it hasn't changed since the mid 80s when I was all but done with my ADN the first time :). That's when my first husband died and I found it difficult to raise 3 boys, work full time and go to school all at the same time. A better woman than I probably could have done it though, you just told me that.
Well, I am out of this thread, it seems there is no discussion as I am repeating myself over and over while others simply keep saying why LPNs are not RNs. Well, DAH.

Jo Dirt · Mar 28, 2005

It was my fault, I have, for years been trying to get attention paid to LPNs who ,for whatever reason, are not returning to school for their RN. I speak this opinion at every possible opportunity.
There is a small and growing number of us and I guess we (me here) get a little over-zelous sometimes. It is a very sensitive subject. I understand that, and for many RNs who really sacraficed to get where they are it can be down right insulting. I do not mean to be insulting to anyone but I do want to see LPNs thrive, not dissolved. I want to see LPNs permitted certifications of specialty which would allow them a broader scope of practice.
I am sorry for being so forceful and for upsetting people, it is a good cause for both nurses and our pts, I just wish more could see it and bacome active in their own BONs to further this cause.

I want to share this. I have worked with numerous LPN's as well as RN's. I like to think of myself as a good nurse, and in observing I have seen shoddy work on both parts. In my experience as a nurse, the best, sharpest, most attentive (and most difficult to work with) nurse I have ever seen happens to be an LPN. Why she did not further her education to be and RN I don't know, but she outshines any nurse, LPN or RN I have ever seen. True, I have found her attentiveness and perfectionism annoying, yet when I'm sick or one of my family is sick, she is the one I will want at the bedside. In that respect I don't believe you can put a lable on a nurse. I do know that there are as many RN's as LPN's I would never trust to touch me or anyone I care about.

mmeow · Mar 29, 2005

Ever try to compare a fresh grad LPN and a fresh grad RN,,,,, well I have ...guess what ...No comparison! :nono:

Grad RN's have a wider base of knowledge, more competent thinking for medical and physiological problem solving when compared to grad LPN's.

WhY???? Simple.

Because grad RN's are prepared to function at a higher level than LPN grads right off the bat since day one of their schooling. The lessons are more indepth, intense, comprehensive, and hell just plain longer.... to be able to cram all that info in 4 years!!!!!!!!!

Of course theory can be learnt on the job, during the years, as it should be in order to keep current, up to date and competent.

But take that grad RN 5 years into the futute and if they maintain their professional obligation to stay current and up to date they will still be far ahead in their knowledge base and thought processess than the LPN grad in 5 years as.... they (the grad RN) started out way ahead of the LP grad to begin with!

Bottom line LPN's as a profession in whole (individuals aside) cannot currently function to the capacity and extent of Registered Nurses,

(and why would they want to... I mean in that case they should have gone to RN school)

News FLASH....... as the LPN course increases in scope and education so does the RN's scope and education increase. Yep oh yes it does....hence and case in point....On my unit alone management is already discussing RN's transering over the medical function of chest tube removal. Oh and the fun doesn't stop there. Hello that's an MD's job. But hey that's how it goes... MD's over burdened with work shove extra tasks over to RN's who overburdened with work shove extra tasks over to LPN's. And down the proverbial ladder we go untill unit aides are doing nursing assigned tasks. :eek: Get real , real quick...everyone is needed in our health care system and everyone has a job to do. So just do it and quit being so darn territorial Everyone!

There will always be crappy nurses RN or LPN who cares, as the LPN's scope increases so does the RN's. Lah dee Dah.

RN and proud, peace:smokin:

SmilingBluEyes · Mar 29, 2005

"meow" may just be the name to suit you......... :sofahider i am ducking the flames sure to come. :chair:

witnurse · Mar 29, 2005

I don't see how anyone could be offended by your remarks.
I might add, and I hope you are not offended, that theory can be learned outside a formal classroom. (even the bridge programs achknowledge that) and just because a nurse has not paid for the college credits, does not mean s/he has not learned the material.
That has been my entire arguement.
It has become the requirement in this country for anything learned to be proven by college credits. Healthcare can not afford that, as nurses, we should all work together to find a better way than formal education. (Though there is a need for a good mix of formally educated nurses and nurses with on-the-job learning) College credits, costing upwards of $200. (that doesn't include miscelaneous fees) to prove you have learned what you need to know to be a great, competant nurse will not take nursing into the future with a very "green" outlook.
I do not understand why so many can not see this.
There are LPNs who will never be capable of provding any more than basic nursing care because they do not want to know "why." This however, should not stop those of us who want to know "why" for everything that comes past us. We should not be penalized and held back to basic bedside care because we lack the resources to prove our knowledge with college credits. Now, no matter how many years of experience and no matter how much an LPN knows, s/he is not an RN and there must be some definition there. RNs do need to be at least financially rewarded for the extra formal education as well as have advancement opps available that are not available to LPNs no matter how capable they are.
Oh well, thanks for listening. Maybe someday, before I die, I will see this change happening! Have a long time to give to that because I don't plan on dieing any time soon! :)

Does anyone in this thread use spell check? If you can spell does that make you a better nurse? If the letters after your name are long or short you can still be the best nurse you can be. Does anyone ask the difference between PA and MD and then find themselves subjected to highly emotional tirades from kids marking their turf in the dirt? This really shows the problems with our profession. If "THEY" keep us at each other, demeaning each other "THEY" win with mandatory overtime, unsafe assignments and 76 cents on the dollar less than our male counterparts.

Thanks for listening to an old nurse who is saddened by some of these posts.

witnurse

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Mar 29, 2005

Ever try to compare a fresh grad LPN and a fresh grad RN,,,,, well I have ...guess what ...No comparison!
Grad RN's have a wider base of knowledge, more competent thinking for medical and physiological problem solving when compared to grad LPN's.
WhY???? Simple.
Because grad RN's are prepared to function at a higher level than LPN grads right off the bat since day one of their schooling. The lessons are more indepth, intense, comprehensive, and hell just plain longer.... to be able to cram all that info in 4 years!!!!!!!!!
Of course theory can be learnt on the job, during the years, as it should be in order to keep current, up to date and competent.
But take that grad RN 5 years into the futute and if they maintain their professional obligation to stay current and up to date they will still be far ahead in their knowledge base and thought processess than the LPN grad in 5 years as.... they (the grad RN) started out way ahead of the LP grad to begin with!
Bottom line LPN's as a profession in whole (individuals aside) cannot currently function to the capacity and extent of Registered Nurses,
(and why would they want to... I mean in that case they should have gone to RN school)
News FLASH....... as the LPN course increases in scope and education so does the RN's scope and education increase. Yep oh yes it does....hence and case in point....On my unit alone management is already discussing RN's transering over the medical function of chest tube removal. Oh and the fun doesn't stop there. Hello that's an MD's job. But hey that's how it goes... MD's over burdened with work shove extra tasks over to RN's who overburdened with work shove extra tasks over to LPN's. And down the proverbial ladder we go untill unit aides are doing nursing assigned tasks. Get real , real quick...everyone is needed in our health care system and everyone has a job to do. So just do it and quit being so darn territorial Everyone!
There will always be crappy nurses RN or LPN who cares, as the LPN's scope increases so does the RN's. Lah dee Dah.
RN and proud, peace:smokin:

I feel so unworthy LOL.:chair: