Depression is terminal??

[Clementia]

About a week ago, someone started a thread to discuss the Brittany Maynard assisted suicide case. The discussion became rather heated, and one of the posters tossed out a comment that disturbed me greatly.

This poster suggested that patients with depression should be allowed assisted suicide, because, after all, "depression is terminal" -- meaning, I suppose, that it isn't a condition that can be cured.

I didn't want to derail the thread, but I can't let a comment like that pass by unanswered. I would like to know if this poster has any personal experience with depression. I would be willing to bet that he/she has no clue about what depression is really like.

I have depression. My mother has severe depression. It runs in my family, and two of my siblings suffer from it as well. We know depression from the inside.

It's horribly easy to toss off some flippant comment about depressives being allowed to kill themselves. Depression plays tricks with your mind. There have been times in my life when I really wanted the pain to stop -- even if that meant death. Then the blackness passed, and I was happy to be alive and incredibly grateful I hadn't put a gun in my mouth.

Depression may not go away, like a broken leg, but it is NOT terminal. Terminal is cancer, heart failure -- any condition that kills you whether you want to die or not. Depression only kills you if you let it.

The last thing depressives like me need to hear is that it's OK to kill yourself if you have a diagnosis of depression. We struggle with suicidal ideation anyway. We don't need encouragement to end it all -- at our blackest points our own brains give us all the suicidal arguments we need. We need someone to encourage us to keep slogging on, someone to tell us that no matter how bad things feel right now, eventually our feelings will change and the world will be bright again. We need a hand to help pull us up out of the pit.

To the person that posted that comment, you know who you are -- don't make ignorant, insensitive remarks about someone else's struggle. You don't know what it's like.

[SionainnRN]

About a week ago, someone started a thread to discuss the Brittany Maynard assisted suicide case. The discussion became rather heated, and one of the posters tossed out a comment that disturbed me greatly.

This poster suggested that patients with depression should be allowed assisted suicide, because, after all, "depression is terminal" -- meaning, I suppose, that it isn't a condition that can be cured.

I didn't want to derail the thread, but I can't let a comment like that pass by unanswered. I would like to know if this poster has any personal experience with depression. I would be willing to bet that he/she has no clue about what depression is really like.

I have depression. My mother has severe depression. It runs in my family, and two of my siblings suffer from it as well. We know depression from the inside.

It's horribly easy to toss off some flippant comment about depressives being allowed to kill themselves. Depression plays tricks with your mind. There have been times in my life when I really wanted the pain to stop -- even if that meant death. Then the blackness passed, and I was happy to be alive and incredibly grateful I hadn't put a gun in my mouth.

Depression may not go away, like a broken leg, but it is NOT terminal. Terminal is cancer, heart failure -- any condition that kills you whether you want to die or not. Depression only kills you if you let it.

The last thing depressives like me need to hear is that it's OK to kill yourself if you have a diagnosis of depression. We struggle with suicidal ideation anyway. We don't need encouragement to end it all -- at our blackest points our own brains give us all the suicidal arguments we need. We need someone to encourage us to keep slogging on, someone to tell us that no matter how bad things feel right now, eventually our feelings will change and the world will be bright again. We need a hand to help pull us up out of the pit.

To the person that posted that comment, you know who you are -- don't make ignorant, insensitive remarks about someone else's struggle. You don't know what it's like.

Wow, if you wanted to talk to me you could have just sent me a PM. You took what I said completely out of context and forgot about half of it. What I said was that in some cases depression can be similar to a terminal disease because no matter how much therapy or medication given it can't be cured. Meaning for some pts they will never stop trying to kill themselves.

I NEVER EVER stated that someone with a dx of depression should go kill themselves. To state that is insulting.

Not only that you are making wild accusations and assumptions about me which are completely baseless. If you had bothered to actually talk to me, rather than attack me on a public forum, I could have clarified what I was saying. Instead you started this thread and accused me of horrible things. You know nothing about me, my family, or medical history. Next time you want to wildly accuse someone of something you should get your facts straight.

[mmc51264, BSN, MSN, RN]

Very defensive. The OP sounds like they just wanted to point out that it may have not been the best analogy.

A terminal cancer patient is not necessarily clinically depressed. And the choice to end their life is based on other criteria.

[SionainnRN]

Very defensive. The OP sounds like they just wanted to point out that it may have not been the best analogy.

A terminal cancer patient is not necessarily clinically depressed. And the choice to end their life is based on other criteria.

It's one thing if she had started a thread to discuss the issue, but this was specifically about me not the issue. There's a big difference. How would you feel if I started a thread about the things you've said?

And it's not an analogy, for many many people depression is terminal, it takes their life. I never said a cancer pt is depressed so I don't know where you're getting that from. There are pts out there who have done years of therapy, are on all the right meds, and continue to have suicide attempts because something in them is broken beyond fixing. These are the people I'm talking about. For them their only future is to be locked up in a mental institute for the rest of their lives because they can't stop trying to kill themselves. For them, they should have another option. They should be able to find peace.

[ShelbyaStar]

I don't think Brittany Maynard has depression? You can feel the need to be euthanized without necessarily being depressed.

I don't know what thread this is referencing. As far as being able to use assisted suicide for mental illness, I do believe that is a possibility in Holland. I don't know how I feel about that. I also have depression and have been suicidal. I do think there's cases that are much worse than mine and are incurable. I do think that the ability to kill yourself is an inalienable right of sorts. Just not sure where to draw the line of when it's okay for a physician to help and when it's not.

I am glad that I made it through. In my case I think of it being sort of like cancer: I got through this bout, but it could come back and it could be worse. Some have it much, much worse.

[h=1]“The thought of suicide is a great consolation: by means of it one gets through many a dark night.”- Nietzche[/h]Sometimes people that do have a terminal physical illness take similar offense to the idea of assisted suicide. Just because some believe it should be an option does not mean that they are suggesting everyone with that illness should choose it. I do not want it, but do not take offense to the idea that some people with similar problems do.

[SionainnRN]

This thread has nothing to do with Brittany. It has to do with the OP taking offense to something I said in a different thread and starting this whole thing rather than talking to me personally.

[Jolie, BSN]

The definition of a terminal illness is one that will result in the death of a patient, regardless of treatment or intervention.

While not applicable to all who suffer depression, I do believe (sadly) that this is an accurate description of a small subset of individuals with depression.

[SionainnRN]

The definition of a terminal illness is one that will result in the death of a patient, regardless of treatment or intervention.

While not applicable to all who suffer depression, I do believe (sadly) that this is an accurate description of a small subset of individuals with depression.

Yes, and that's what I was talking about. The group of people who despite meds and therapy will continue to attempt suicide. And that's what I said in my original post that the OP is referencing but didn't bother to actually quote.

And never once did I say a person with depression should be able to have physician assisted suicide. It was specifically stated for the ones who meds and therapy aren't working for.

[imintrouble, BSN, RN]

Derailment alert!!!!!

ShelbyaStar,

I'd not seen that particular Nietzche quote.

Thanks for posting.

[RNMA15]

@ SionainnRN, I think you are taking this too personal…yes, the OPs perception of your comment may have sparked this thread, but its enough that you explained what you meant! She didn't have to ask you privately about it- anytime you make a comment on a public forum, be prepared for the fact that it will mean different things to different people. This thread has brought about a new topic now- Depression and Assisted Suicide, let it flow without you feeling such need to defend yourself! Whether or not it was intentional on your end, or whether you were misunderstood or not, is no longer the issue…

[SionainnRN]

@ SionainnRN, I think you are taking this too personal...yes, the OPs perception of your comment may have sparked this thread, but its enough that you explained what you meant! She didn't have to ask you privately about it- anytime you make a comment on a public forum, be prepared for the fact that it will mean different things to different people. This thread has brought about a new topic now- Depression and Assisted Suicide, let it flow without you feeling such need to defend yourself! Whether or not it was intentional on your end, or whether you were misunderstood or not, is no longer the issue...

If she hadn't publicly called me out, stating I made horrible rude and insensitive remarks I wouldn't have to defend myself. If the op has been an adult and just started a thread on whether depression should be considered a terminal disease, that would be completely okay. But she didn't do that, she said horrible things about me personally. That's what I take deep offense too. Especially since she couldn't be bothered to post the quotes she was so offended by. Just her interpretation of them.

[VivaLasViejas, ASN, RN]

I can see several sides to the issue of whether or not mental illness is a terminal disease. It doesn't have to be; even though there is no "cure", the vast majority of people with depression, bipolar, schizophrenia etc. can live productive lives with the help of medications and therapy. On the other hand, there is a small minority who have chronic illness, whose symptoms don't get better even though they've tried meds, therapy, exercise, acupuncture and so on.

But should a doctor prescribe medication to give them a way out? I don't think that should be an option. And not to put too fine a point on things, but most mentally ill people have an entire pharmacy in their homes---they don't need official clearance to end their lives. There's a big difference between being depressed and having suicidal ideation, and being depressed enough to be considered "terminally ill" and prescribed an overdose of barbiturates.

To be honest, designating persistent mental illness as a terminal condition seems like a slippery slope to me. Who's next---people with CHF? Elders who are in the early stages of dementia? Scary thought.