Deleting nurses notes

[Rugford5LPN]

I work in a facility that uses computer nurses notes. Recently, a few of the nurses that work here, including myself, had our nurses noted deleted from the computer because the management stated our notes told too much of the truth regarding a behavior on one of our residents. All of the info contained in our noted was accurate, the truth, and totally described this residents behaviors to a "T". How legal is it to delete out notes from a residents personal chart? Anyone have any thoughts or opinions? Has this ever happened to anyone else?THANKS

[CompleteUnknown]

wrong.

they can go to the IT department and have the files electronically shredded wherein there is no chance of recovery whatsoever.

i am security+ certified and know this to be a fact. The computer admin has the ability to remove all traces of any documentation and file--they have the programming and network experience to remove information from proprietary systems, writing random zeros and ones over the sectors where the data resided.

the CEO of the hospital along with the attorney could ensure this course of action

now, if a NURSE or standard user account tried to delete the data, yes, most competent IT departments have the 'unaldulterated' data--but as i said, it CAN be permanently deleted with no chance of recovery.

That's interesting zcoq72mehs, I think I always thought that sort of thing could be done to a complete file but I didn't think you'd be able to selectively delete individual parts of a chart, say a particular nurse's note, and leave the rest untouched without there being some evidence of that.

[zcoq72mehs]

That's interesting zcoq72mehs, I think I always thought that sort of thing could be done to a complete file but I didn't think you'd be able to selectively delete individual parts of a chart, say a particular nurse's note, and leave the rest untouched without there being some evidence of that.

if u have access to a file or a program on a filesystem wherein you have admin privileges, and you have the cracker tools, and nothing is encrypted, in short order you can do anything with that file.

if the program is proprietary and the originating programming software is unknown, it is more difficult but still possible with an astute/experienced decompil'er guy.

if it is encrypted, it is more tedious and you need resources--preferably locally.

if you can open it to the internet without bandwidth restrictions, you get your drones (u know, the machines on the net u 'own',ie drone attacks u hear about on the news on occasion) to work--it is not an easy task, but even this can be done.

[nursedanica]

You can actually file a case against them.

[zcoq72mehs]

i mention the desire to know the compiler as there are templates for the majority of them wherein you load the template in your template-supporting hex editor and the obfuscated, compiled code comes to life for you instantaneously.

:)

in other cases they are freestanding, decompiling apps like the salamander, many for delphi, etc. this is why there are so many 'free versions' of microsofts operating system about--control the OS, you control the app

anyhow, i dont want to talk much more about these kinds of things.

:)

[CompleteUnknown]

i mention the desire to know the compiler as there are templates for the majority of them wherein you load the template in your template-supporting hex editor and the obfuscated, compiled code comes to life for you instantaneously.

:)

in other cases they are freestanding, decompiling apps like the salamander, many for delphi, etc. this is why there are so many 'free versions' of microsofts operating system about--control the OS, you control the app

anyhow, i dont want to talk much more about these kinds of things.

:)

Thanks for the explanation, fascinating stuff and I wish I understood more of it!

[zcoq72mehs]

completeunknown only!

there are many courses on becoming a certified ethical hacker--i would watch all of them

load your two antispyware softwares and visit DANGEROUS tactools and DANGEROUS downarchive for illegal copies

i would suggest vipre (not firewall version) and malwarebytes lifetime license 4 the latter

for firewall, consider online solutions personal firewall (russian)

in this way, you have control of each app--both highly configurable

prevention is much easier than removal, esp of rootkits

anyway, there are about 4 major producers of ceh training software--watch all of them

careeracademy, cbt nuggets

watch all the old versions and new versions cause the different instructors have different techniques.

u may want to start with security+ first

u can play around with 010 hex editor for now

http://www.sweetscape.com/010editor/templates.html

good luck

added: review leak tests here:

http://www.matousec.com/projects/proactive-security-challenge/results.php

[zcoq72mehs]

completeunknown

load all questionable apps into sandboxie

visit sysinternals and nirsoft to watch ur registry, file access, memory access, network access, etc

be well

for educational purposes only

ok, i really need to shut up now.

no more.

i have given u the resources to learn what u need

it is a long journey--you can download entire 'kits' for ur cracker box.

[wooh, BSN, RN]

Yes in theory, they could hack past the audit trails. BUT, generally a nurse that is stupid enough to "delete" accurate charting isn't smart enough to know how to get around the system.

[NicuGal, MSN, RN]

All great in theory, but I highly doubt that there is an administrator at the building that is going to do that. People are just stupid when it comes to computers...like I said nothing is ever really gone unless you have a super hacker like mentioned above or they smash the hard drives. There are many safeguards in place and the can audit what people do.

[nurse2033, MSN, RN]

Please contact your Board of Nursing. This is unethical and probably illegal. "Too much of the truth" was the reason given? How pathetic is that? They don't even have the imagination to come up with a less egregious sounding lie. By reporting them you could be saving a life someday.

[turnforthenurse, MSN, NP]

As NicuGal mentioned, there is always an audit trail.

My facility utilizes an EMR and we are allowed to modify or unchart things, but it is still visible in the chart and anyone who has access to the chart can see that.

[zcoq72mehs]

Yes in theory, they could hack past the audit trails. BUT, generally a nurse that is stupid enough to "delete" accurate charting isn't smart enough to know how to get around the system.

yes, i am not talking about a nurse.

it would be the IT dept. guys

there are many 'kits' nowadays, and the birth of the 'script kiddies' has thus been born--ppl who do not necessarily know the know-how, but have automated tools to aid in the process

my only point is that any electronic can be changed and deleted with no trace--this is exactly why honeypots exist--to lure these crackers so the govt can study their techniques, as their systems are being penetrated weekly, undetected.

be well