Death Penalty Anesthesia

HM2VikingRN, RN · May 23, 2006

I wouldn't take the job. It is not care delivered for the purpose of enhancing life or health.

The ethical dilemnas are just too daunting a task to navigate. I think that the difference between assisted suicide and lethal injection boilds down to the idea that in the first instance the (presumed competent) individual is making a rational choice on their own behalf. While with lethal injection the role of the CRNA would be perverted to imposing a punitive sanction on the individual on behalf of the state.

(My own opinion is that I oppose capital punishment both for reasons of ethics, inequitable application and cost.)

susswood · May 23, 2006

Medical Ethics and the Death Penalty from NPR news:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5230227

MmacFN · May 23, 2006

hey suss

thanks for the articles

Sounds like I had it backwards! Based on the joint statement by the ASA/AANA it seems anesthesia is fighting to be the providers. That what you read there?

rayman · May 23, 2006

This topic was discussed on this thread about a month ago by our MD colleagues....

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=277422

susswood · May 23, 2006

Sounds like I had it backwards! Based on the joint statement by the ASA/AANA it seems anesthesia is fighting to be the providers. That what you read there?

Not at all. What they are saying is that you can't use monitors like the BIS unless someone trained in anesthesia can interpret the data.... I don't think for a minute that statement implies they want to be the ones who do it.

Focker, CRNA · May 23, 2006

The practice of anesthesia is to render someone free of pain during a painful procedure. Administration of anesthetic agents as part of death by lethal injection is NOT the practice of anesthesia because the medications are used to kill the person, not help them. Of course, I would never do this (even if it were legal) and hope that my colleagues would respond the same way.

I agree with MmacFN, it seems to me the whole purpose of the anesthetic in this case is to prevent any kind of pain or awareness for the person being put to death. The prisoners argument is valid in my opinion, if people untrained in anesthesia are administering these drugs then it would be cruel and unusual if it was actually a possibility that the prisoner was conscious while paralyzed and put to death (not that they don't deserve it, I think eye for an eye is more than fair). If this is the method the prisons choose to use to put people to death, then an anesthetist (doctor or nurse) should be pushing the drugs.

My opinion is that life in prison would be a much worse punishment than being put to sleep. From my limited knowledge (so correct me if I'm wrong) of cost of imprisonment for life vs. court costs for all the appeals deathrow inmates are entitled to, life in prison is cheaper for us taxpayers. On an ethical level I am not against the death penalty, but mainly for the two above reasons I think it is a poor choice.

burn out · May 23, 2006

Death penalty or abortion involves someone dying and whether I had to be the executioner or assisting I could not do either.

wjf00 · May 23, 2006

Ok
This is not a debate

Are you kidding? Invite all the bomb throwers.

MmacFN · May 23, 2006

hehe

well from my perspective it has gone quite well as a discussion. Everything sus said and the articles she presented are salient to the issue.

Suss:

While i see what you are saying, it could easily be interpreted this way; AANA/ASA says only anesthesia can utilize these machines and drugs correctly. Since the death penalty isnt going away, the suggestion is that there needs to be anesthesia providers attending and administering in this case. What other conclusion could be made? Agree with it or not, the US public has decided capitol punishment shall be in their states respectively. If the statement from the anesthesia giants is that it cant be done this way without an anesthesia provider, and it isnt going away that says to me "Hire anesthesia to do the deed". See what i mean?

really, i cant understand the need for the BIS or anesthesia. All you need is a massive dose of each med and the patient will be paralyzed, highly sedated and quickly dead. Not like we are worrying about the doses, after all it is an execution.

rn29306 · May 23, 2006

Dosages I've seen quoted:

sodium thiopental: 1-5 grams

pancuronium: 50-100 mg

potassium: quantities over 20 mEq IV rapid push

Nice article found at http://www.ncadp.org/html/report.htm

susswood · May 23, 2006

hehe
If the statement from the anesthesia giants is that it cant be done this way without an anesthesia provider, and it isnt going away that says to me "Hire anesthesia to do the deed". See what i mean?

No way. More like, "keep us out of this, killing people is not our business."

If the AANA ever took a position to support CRNAs as part of an execution team I would rescind my membership immediately.

I know you said the death penalty isn't going away, but I find it interesting that the US is one of the only western democratic societies that still utilizes this form of punishment. So maybe we will eventually follow in the trend of our older sister countries in western Europe. Time will tell.

Howard I · May 24, 2006

I know you said the death penalty isn't going away, but I find it interesting that the US is one of the only western democratic societies that still utilizes this form of punishment. So maybe we will eventually follow in the trend of our older sister countries in western Europe. Time will tell.

And look how great they are! We have to pull their butts out of sling all the time. France is real stable these days,ha. What about those bombs in England and lets don't forget Ireland. Absence of a spine doesn't make for a stronger society\democracy.