Cup feeding associated with longer hospital stays

littlepeach · Aug 16, 2008

I'll have to ask our feeding specialist about this. I think we may be gearing up to go "Baby Friendly" soon, but we also firmly reject the idea of nipple confusion.
And can I just say, and no offense to anyone who has seen it work, that this sounds like the dumbest damn idea I ever heard. Maybe if I saw it done, I'd get it, but on paper it seems kind of ridiculous.

Totally agree. It is a nurse's preference in our hospital. Most of us refuse. One nurse is gung ho about it, and she usually gets reported the most. As for nipple confusion...garbage!!! More like a flow preference from out of a bottle, but no such thing as nipple confusion.

Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP · Aug 17, 2008

Gaaaah! I wish we could refuse to cup feed our kids (well babies mostly but still....). We would get written up so fast for bottle feeding a breast baby. Well, if you want to breastfeed your baby (wonderful!), then please also make sure you have your breast available when your baby is hungry. That may not be on the every-3-hour schedule that you read in that book about what to expect. :madface:

(just a little irritated today....)

justme1972 · Aug 17, 2008

Interesting!
Honestly I think cup/syringe feeding is one of the most barbaric things, and the fact that hospitals allow it is crazy!
I wish they'd do a big study on nipple confusion as well. I think when we look back on nipple confusion/syringe and cup feeds it's gonna be one of those things people just can't believe we ever believed in such a crazy idea! At least that's what I think about the whole thing.

I am a HUGE proponent of breast feeding. Big, Big, Big.

But the bottom line, is that infants need to be fed in a manner that is safe, consistent, to where they will get the required nutrition.

I flat out do not believe in nipple confusion. I just don't. I believe that this is a myth that has been generated by A FEW (I would never, ever say all or even most) lactation consultants that make mothers think that you are practically neglecting your child if you don't breast feed.

Sucking is a reflex. Infants have primative patterns of feeding. I had about 3 different brand/shapes of nipples when my preemie twins got home, and they took all 3. Yes, they had their "favorites" but they ever refuse to feed adequately because I changed?

Nope.

The issue with the cup feeding absolutely doesn't surprise me at all. It requires a substantial amount of work of the infant. I feel it's a simple, biological response. These babies are early...they are weak...they need to be fed through a tube if they can't suck.

It is not the way nature intended them to eat, to "lap" it up like an animal and to "learn" to do it...why should they do it any differently than how they "came" programmed to eat?

They stay longer at these hospitals b/c they knonk out before they eat enough and it's more work on them.

It all goes back to the "myth" of nipple confusion.

It's just plain crazy.

justme1972 · Aug 17, 2008

Gaaaah! I wish we could refuse to cup feed our kids (well babies mostly but still....). We would get written up so fast for bottle feeding a breast baby. Well, if you want to breastfeed your baby (wonderful!), then please also make sure you have your breast available when your baby is hungry. That may not be on the every-3-hour schedule that you read in that book about what to expect.
(just a little irritated today....)

Just out of curiosity....sheer, curiosity...

Does your lactation consultant tell these parents that their babies will get "confused" or does she objectively state that it is a very controversial subject....some research says yes, some say no...but nothing has been proven?

Our lactation consultant presents both arguments to parents, so needless to say, we don't engage in the "syringe" feeding at the hospital where I externed this summer. If the parents want to do it, they provide the syringe to mom, but they are told the nurses won't do it.

Cup feeding...doesn't happen at our hospital. Risk of aspiration.

Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP · Aug 17, 2008

Depends on the LC, really. Some are more laid back than others and don't really argue the point with moms. Others go into this frenzy if they find bottles in the kid's drawer. "What is THIS doing in here?" "THIS has got to GO!" Which really irritates me. Here is this mother who is tired, doesn't want to see her baby hungry, and now you've made her feel like a horrible mother. Thanks a lot! Now, not only do I have a crying (hungry) baby, I've also got a crying (overwhelmed) mother.

It really irritates me. Some LCs absolutely will not agree to having mothers feed with a bottle. Cup, syringe, or SNS. Cups and syringes are just completely unnatural and SNS, while they have their use, are way too overwhelming for most people. I hate them, personally.

And yes, I have heard our LCs use 'nipple confusion' when talking parents. Not all, but a few. Most of the rest of us are "Stick a bottle in his mouth & be done with it."

Andie13RN · Aug 17, 2008

Finger feeding: Put a glove on your right hand, take a feeding tube and tape it securely to the last 2 phalanges of your index finger (palm side). Cradle the baby as usual. Take 10 or 20 ml syringe fill of the milk of your choice (I don't recommend chocolate), get the baby to suck on your finger, and gradually drip the feeding into the baby's mouth via the feeding tube.
Bon appetit!!

No way! :no: :no:

Andie13RN · Aug 17, 2008

Poor baby is certainly not enjoying this

[YOUTUBE]

[/YOUTUBE]

justme1972 · Aug 17, 2008

Depends on the LC, really. Some are more laid back than others and don't really argue the point with moms. Others go into this frenzy if they find bottles in the kid's drawer. "What is THIS doing in here?" "THIS has got to GO!" Which really irritates me. Here is this mother who is tired, doesn't want to see her baby hungry, and now you've made her feel like a horrible mother. Thanks a lot! Now, not only do I have a crying (hungry) baby, I've also got a crying (overwhelmed) mother.
It really irritates me. Some LCs absolutely will not agree to having mothers feed with a bottle. Cup, syringe, or SNS. Cups and syringes are just completely unnatural and SNS, while they have their use, are way too overwhelming for most people. I hate them, personally.
And yes, I have heard our LCs use 'nipple confusion' when talking parents. Not all, but a few. Most of the rest of us are "Stick a bottle in his mouth & be done with it."

..hence the term Lactation Consultant and not Lactation Practitioner.

Why isn't anyone informing these patients that the LC is there to give advice and isn't authorized to write an order?

What are they taking about when they say, "The LC won't allow...".

I just don't get that.

Is anyone telling these mothers that they have a choice?

To me, the facility, shouldn't permit the LC's to tell a mother, as if it was a scientific fact (which we all know it's not) that they can't breast feed if a bottle goes near the infant.

I highly suspect this is why the "cup fed" babies are spending more time in the hospital...they aren't getting enough nutrition, they are getting tired, and therefore, having to stay longer.

I can understand a first-time mother falling for that, but not a 2-timer :)

BittyBabyGrower, MSN, RN · Aug 17, 2008

The thing that grosses me out with fingerfeeds is that you are using the glove out the bedside box,and how do you know if someone didn't stick their dirty hand in there and rifle thru the box to get one...ewww! The thought behind is that the kid can suck hard enough to pull the plunger down from a 10ml syringe....I've only seen a handful of kids do that.

If someone had told me I couldn't give my one DD a bottle in the hospital I probably would have picked up the bassinet and hit them with it...I was dog tired from working nights and then going into labor, hence no sleep for like ever and coupled with her rough ride out and a low beginning apgar, I just was having a heck of a time....I sent her to the nursery with one of my friends for 2 feeds, slept and felt like a million bucks after! She nursed fine.

Jolie, BSN · Aug 17, 2008

It really irritates me. Some LCs absolutely will not agree to having mothers feed with a bottle. Cup, syringe, or SNS. Cups and syringes are just completely unnatural and SNS, while they have their use, are way too overwhelming for most people.

That's the point at which the LC should take responsibility for feeding the child herself.

If a nurse receives an inappropriate order from a physician, it is the nurse's professional duty to refuse to carry out that order. No different from LCs, although as Hopefull pointed out, they are not in a position to write orders.

If a lactation consultant wants to mandate some funky method of feeding that has no scientific data to back it up, and places the baby at risk for aspiration, let her do it!

justme1972 · Aug 17, 2008

Poor baby is certainly not enjoying this
OAQcvHkFbdc

Here is what I see from that video:

1. A baby that is frantically rooting for something to suck on...b/c that is what nature intended for it to do.

2. Breast milk that may have been measured when it went in the cup, but between the drips and the spit outs...how do you REALLY know what went inside the baby?

You just don't!

One thing that the nurses told me when my kids were in the NICU (and I have never read this anywhere...so someone let me know if this is a myth), I noticed that when they had their tube feedings stated through their noses, that the RN put a pacifier in her mouth (all the premies were done this way)...I asked why...and she said, "We do it so they can associate a full tummy/eating with sucking...otherwise, the rooting reflex starts to go away if they are getting nutrition without effort."

To me, that does make biological sense...but whether it's true or not, I have no idea.

RainDreamer, BSN, RN · Aug 17, 2008

Looks like torture