A little background on me, I just turned 24 years old. My first few years of college were spent playing collegiate football, after a few injuries i decided to pursue medicine.
After talking with a plastic surgeon, he turned me on to the career of a CRNA. He told me being a doctor isn't what it used to be, and that CRNA's have great jobs, great pay scale of work hours + time of education vs. pay. To make a long story short, without looking into to either profession (shadowing) I switched my major to nursing where I spent the last two years taking all the pre reqs.
I have currently been accepted intothe University of Nevada Reno's BSN program. It is an accelerated 16 month program and I would start this August (08).
Off and on, and more so lately, the desire to go through med school and become a doctor keeps popping up. After reading a book titled Becoming a Doctor. A journey of initiation in medical school by Melvin Konner, M.D. I became a little disenfranchised with the idea of being a doctor--anyone else read this book and feel the same?-- Not really basing my change of heart on one man's opinion but more so based on "apparent" facts and shortcomings of medical schools and the whole process in general. He makes some great points but does come across pessimistic, but i digress and back to the topic on hand.
So the real question is, since i have this creeping feeling that once in the nursing program I am going to want to eventually do medical school, would it behoove me to skip nursing school?
I have cross searched multiple threads however my situation seems to be a little different, and that is, I can obtain my bachelors degree in only 16 months. This is much faster than I would be able to obtain a degree in biological sciences. However, I only have a couple classes of my premed reqs done and I would probably end up going to a post-bac premed program such as goucher.
The premed program is one year and then one glide year--which i'm thinking maybe i can work as an rn and earn a little something while I wait to start med school-- but overall it would be about 1.5 years until my BS, 2 years until start of med school. I'm just curious if it might not just be faster to switch majors now, not go through the pain in the ass that nursing school may be, and apply and go to med school.
My grades are good, over the last 3 years I have a 4.0 (about a 3.82 cumulative, 6 units of C's in football is killing me) science gpa is 4.0
It seems like i should do the nursing program, as i can always use it as a backup plan in case i end up not wanting to go through the doctor process and then I can specialize as a np or crna later.
Any suggestions? Opinions? Maybe something I'm overlooking.
at the end of the day the pro's and cons of both professions are split, but what gets me, is i don't want to feel like i settled knowing that i could make it in and through med school.
I'm 24 right now, and if i went down my current route, i would most likely graduate med school when i'm 31-32. I don't want to be a poor college student forever and I do have ambitions of getting married and starting a family before i'm over the hill.
Let me know what you guys think, thanks in advance for the tips and suggestions.
Sounds like you have really thought and planned, I just have a couple of comments about a couple of your points (I'm a list maker so I really get your thought process here)
2) Debt of medical school is can be as high as 200,000! Nursing school + CRNA school most likely doesn't exceed 75,000.
The average tuition charge for a CRNA program is between 40-50k and then you can't work for 2.5-3 years (could be up to 80k+ in tuition). Many people coming out of CRNA programs have 100-150k in debt right now between undergrad and graduate. It really depends upon your individual circumstance.
4) Anesthesiologists make atleast double what a CRNA does, but again, they spend a lot more hours on the job. In most cases, probably almost double. So, CRNA pay is definately great.
You are correct that you can find a position where you work shifts as a CRNA, but that's far from universal. Even in those situations I'd be surprised if the average MD work twice the hours of the average CRNA. The CRNAs where I'm at work as many, and sometimes more hours than the MDs. We are their employees, but we aren't supervised and cover all the in-house and weekend call in 2 hospitals. They work less evenings and weekends and have 8 weeks vacation a year to our 6 weeks. We also get the day off after call which is nice, but the only 'shift' we work is call, otherwise we're there until cases are done. Sometimes that's noon, sometimes it's 8 pm. I like the professionalism that imparts. It may be a little unusual but a lot of CRNAs in rural areas for example, cover whatever needs to be done.
I just thought I'd point out that due to the hyper-competitive applications for med school, one needs to really have a high cumulative gpa area 3.5,+ but this depends on one's undergrad as well. Try not to kid yourself, that med schools nearly worship those MCAT scores, with 10's+ in each section (national averages around 7). Certain med schools (MD schools) do not deal with MCATs though, so be versed in this as well.
If one can't make the MD-school cut, then DO schools are a little less cut-throat, with the MD/DO that take the same boards. Certain states rules/regs can differ as to who's academic background qualifies them for certain physician titles.
There seem to be nearly all clinical people making comments on MD working conditions, but now there are so many more non-clinical positions available for physicians. Keep in mind that many long-term career MDs feel ground up by the system, with many more becoming involved in non-clinical settings: consulting, drug companies, insurance, finance, and a host of other non-clinical choices.
It depends on how high up the socio-economic food chain one wants to go, right? If a person can't make the MD/DO cut, then there's always the PharmDs-pharmacy, and PA-physicians assistant, that are higher paid than the RNs. What's the ol' saying about income-it's not everything, but it's not noth'n.
All other things being equal, there are some stark pay differentials within the MD, CRNA, PharmD, PA areas of professional distinction. Amongst the MD/DO area, the specialists like the derms-$390k+, radiologists/cardiologists/specialist dentists $300-500k+, and the rest of the MD ranking on down the list from there. CRNA's pay-$160k+, PharmD $110k+, PA-$70k,+ so just keep in mind these things as well.
Also, since you have interests in various fields, go out of your way to read/understand various professional journals as much as possible, as this balances out one's education a great deal more with the real world. Good luck!
I am a male nurse with 12 years experience, 6 in ICU CCU. I am currently in my junior year of CRNA school and loving it. Looking back, I would not change a thing.
I guess there would be pros and cons to either route. Having been a bedside nurse, I will list a few of the pros and cons, based on my experience.
Pros to nursing:
Once you get that RN license, you'll be able to put food on the table no matter what.
You don't have to go though all of the orgo and physical science in your undergrad (although clinicals and lab will probably make up for that pain, it'll just be a different pain.)
You could always go on to NP or CRNA.
Cons to nursing:
Its dirty work. Wiping Ca Ca, washing patients. Get used to it. And if you think you're gonna skip right from the nursing lab to CRNA school, guess again: You need at least a year (and 1 year is light) critical care experience to be considered for any CRNA program. You might hear about people from the ER or PACU occasionally getting in, but that is an anomaly. You gotta pay your dues, and first stop is becoming a critical care nurse.
Nursing is the largest, yet least represented group of people in the United States. Chances are, unless you work in a facility that really cherishes its nurses, you'll be working shortstaffed and never feeling like you have done enough. This, cumulatively, takes its toll. Look at some of the research on floor nurses. You will find there is a high burnout rate.
You could get a nice cushy job on a psych ward, but this would be a dead end. Clinical advanced practice nursing programs (save for psychiatric NP, perhaps) will not recognize this experience. You need solid critical care experience to get into the best graduate nursing programs (CRNA, NP.) So in short, you will need to become a critical care nurse after you graduate, which will be yet another challenge. But don't let this discourage you; you will be learning all the way!
Thanks for your input on your schedule and aspects of nursing care delivery to be involved with as it relates to a particular nursing discipline, the role of the CRNA. I'm relatively new to nursing, but not to healthcare.
I thought I would ask you this, by the way. I, and probably like other potential students as well, are leary of getting involved in difficult academic topics that may be 'over our heads' as they say, or at least
very challenging. (I would need to know the academic/lifestyle expectations for myself for an academic pursuit down the road.)
I was wondering if I could ask you for some of the details that your classes are covering--what types of topics, how much depth, how much studying every night, and other things like this.
It's always good to get quality information, and since you're in the middle of the CRNA academic plan, this would be very helpful to a new person in the field like myself.
I wonder this too, by the way. In relation to taking classes online to acquire the RN, the science classes are obviously with no lab attached to them. If this a 'big' academic weakness, as would be seen from a CRNA school admittance committee, or not?
Having been in academic environments, an equality of accreditation
isn't always what it's cracked up to be, right? (Thanks alot again for your good input, and as always too, others in this academic or freshly out of this academic environment, please respond accordingly.)
first, I'll tell you that you are on the right path by seeking out quality information. You should be a scavenger for any type of information. Talk to people who are enrolled or have recently graduated. For us, a lot of this stuff is still fresh in our minds.
Ask specific questions of people students if you can meet some. What is your day like? How much time do you study everyday? Also, keep in mind that everybody is different. One person may read the chapter and absorber like a sponge. Others, like myself, however, need time to digest information and work a little bit harder.
To address your questions, I will give you one answer which you are to hear over and over in CRNA school: "It depends."
Is the subject matter too deep and challenging? It depends. Mostly, on your background and which school you are attending. You need to research the schools which you are applying to. Anesthesia schools do a good job at screening applicants. If have at least a year or two of critical care experience (tertiary facility preferred) and can carry a 3.0 minimum (3.4 or higher preferred), and score satisfactorily on the GRE (1000 or higher) then you can do anesthesia school. This is why anesthesia programs have these standards: to weed out the people who for whatever reason, cannot perform.
You should get yourself tested and find out what kind of learning style you are. I took a simple test in a book and learned I am a kinesthetic learner. I worked a lot of my readings and lecture material into online flashcards and got A's ( and worth mentioning, I went to nursing school on a GED.) It doesn't matter your background or what people "say" about you. What matters, is your level of academic maturity and your study habits. Go get tested, and then learn every single possible study strategy for that learning style. Develop a plan to utilize this stuff and tackle the material that is thrown at you. I was told in public schools that I had a "learning disability." After undergoing testing, I was told I should best go into "music and art." Yet, I maintained a 4.0 my first semester of anesthesia school. It is all about planning, strategy, and WORK. I believe, anyone can do anything, as long as they put their minds to it.
My opinion is the most precious resource in anesthesia school is time. People sometimes try to work. I think this is foolish for 2 reasons: 1. You are only going to burn yourself out, and this will prevent you from enjoying what should be a wonderful growth experience, and 2. When you consider the money you'll be making after you graduate, it is fiscally logical to borrow, pay little interest, and then pay it back later with anesthesia money. This way, you'll have time to graze on it all day long. I believe, looking back, I was probably more stressed working my way through RN school (as I put myself through while working full-time.) To be able to devote 100% of your time to school is a beautiful thing. A quality of life light-years ahead of floor nursing.
Basically, CRNA schools can be either science-based or research-based. I am attending Northeastern University. This is a research-based program. I have a friend who is attending memorial hospital of Rhode Island, which is a science-based program. While he was agonizing over drawing molecular structures and pushing arrows, I was brushing up on my APA format and writing 15 page research papers. Not to say that northeastern does not offer a great science base -- they do. Just not as deep as a program like Memorial Hospital (which offers a Masters in biology versus a Masters in nursing.) Myself, personally, I prefer a research-based program. So much of medicine is evidence-based. I feel, after a couple of semesters at northeastern, adept at critiquing research and forming my own hypotheses. Pick your poison. If you're going to select a research-based program, brush up on your APA and make sure you can get into a paper writing mode. Conversely, if you are going to select a science-based program, make sure you have a good understanding of organic chemistry and basic physics. But again, each program is different. The best thing to do is to make a big long list of programs you want to attend, and keep a page of notes on each one. This involves a lot of e-mails and phone calls. Check websites of programs -- many, overwhelmed with phone calls, post FAQ websites which will answer a lot of your questions quickly.
As far as the online science class goes, that is a good question for the director of the program you're applying to. My intuition tells me, however, that you should pick an undergrad nursing chemistry elective at a 4 year university, with a lab.
I hope this helps. I am in my third month of residency. This job is awesome. Clinical is tough: You make a lot of less than optimal decisions and receive a ton of feedback. Very important, you should be prepared to receive feedback and leave your ego at home. At first, it doesn't feel good hearing cold prickillies; But stop and think of how difficult it must be to take a floor nurse and make them an anesthesiologist? Anesthesia preceptors are faced with the daunting task. Our job is to pay attention, be conscientious, and remain flexible.
My head preceptor summed it up very nicely: "This is the hardest thing you will ever do, and the most rewarding thing you'll ever do."
go to med school. do the research, get good grades. being a crna is not all its cracked up to be. i truly regret not trying to get into med school. just do it!!!
I think the answer is really within you. Try to see what is more important in your life:
Long years of sacrifice (probably 15) and work to become an MD, be recognized as such, and do what you love with good money. Or, become a CRNA (average 10 years), through painful and uninteresting nursing theory, cleaning crap for a few years (don't get me wrong I loved being an RN for the time I did), and have a good pay and awesome hours.
I'd say that if your call is to be a doctor the be it! don't waste your time in nursing school. They are such different professions. See what your surgeon friend does live, and then go behind the curtain and see what his CRNA does. Then, walk outside to the recovery area and see what the RN does. Totally different things!
I chose the CRNA path and love it. However, if I started school younger when I was 18, I'd be a doctor.
CrossfitSRNA2b - I am in your same position right now. Ever since I was little, I wanted to become an Obstetrician because I viewed delivering babies as the bee's knees of jobs haha. Then, my parents talked me out of it as well as primary physicians in the late 90s/early 2000s as I was entering college. I felt completely lost, and ended up getting a Bachelor's of Business in International Business (the one good thing that came out of that was studying abroad for a year and attaining Spanish fluency). 2.5 yrs of real world working experience later, I'm back in school for Nursing for now (quickest career change into the med field) and now that I'm in A&P2 and we're rarely dissecting animals, I realize "heyy, I want to dissect humans...I want MED SCHOOL!!!" I have a 4.0 in all my sciences, I apply myself and love learning - just NEVER knew how apt I was to sciences until actually having a go at them, toward Nursing. A male nurse friend of mine recently was accepted to a CRNA program and I figured at least with CRNA I could SEE the surgeries and be somewhat involved - and that would be fulfilling enough. I am having doubts because maybe I'm meant to continue on my path to MD. But I am JUST like you...on the route to nursing. And CRNA is likely the final result if I pursue Nursing. It's just such a hard call when weighing all the options...if America didn't suck so much right now and our government could get it's act together with regard to healthcare, I think I'd have a clearer picture of my future. My parents are still extremely biased by the negativity surrounding the profitability of a career as an MD due to rising malpractice insurance costs and lowering reimbursement cuts from Medicare. I just want to learn and make a difference - but the costs are everywhere in different forms - and making this decision is not easy.
How have you enjoyed working as an ICU nurse? Any pros/cons that you can relate would be fantastic and I wish you the best as you continue your nursing career :). Thanks in advance for any input!
loveanesthesia
870 Posts
Sounds like you have really thought and planned, I just have a couple of comments about a couple of your points (I'm a list maker so I really get your thought process here)
2) Debt of medical school is can be as high as 200,000! Nursing school + CRNA school most likely doesn't exceed 75,000.
The average tuition charge for a CRNA program is between 40-50k and then you can't work for 2.5-3 years (could be up to 80k+ in tuition). Many people coming out of CRNA programs have 100-150k in debt right now between undergrad and graduate. It really depends upon your individual circumstance.
4) Anesthesiologists make atleast double what a CRNA does, but again, they spend a lot more hours on the job. In most cases, probably almost double. So, CRNA pay is definately great.
You are correct that you can find a position where you work shifts as a CRNA, but that's far from universal. Even in those situations I'd be surprised if the average MD work twice the hours of the average CRNA. The CRNAs where I'm at work as many, and sometimes more hours than the MDs. We are their employees, but we aren't supervised and cover all the in-house and weekend call in 2 hospitals. They work less evenings and weekends and have 8 weeks vacation a year to our 6 weeks. We also get the day off after call which is nice, but the only 'shift' we work is call, otherwise we're there until cases are done. Sometimes that's noon, sometimes it's 8 pm. I like the professionalism that imparts. It may be a little unusual but a lot of CRNAs in rural areas for example, cover whatever needs to be done.