CRNA vs AA

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Hi, im trying to figure out what would be a better choice a nurse anesthesist or the anethesiologist assistant. I realize their are pros and cons to each but i need some opinions preferrably people in the field. Thanks

Ha! No, I am not a recruiter. I am preparing to enter a CRNA program this fall. Many of the students I know are already working with recruiters to secure jobs upon graduation. So, are you a CRNA? It's true that there are people who say not to use a recruiter. On the other hand there are just as many folks who say it's a good idea. I think it's a personal preference. Also, I hardly believe that Southwestern Medical School (one of the top rated in the country) would be using recruiters (which they do) to find CRNA's because the jobs there are just so awful that no one wants to work there. Same goes for Parkland Hospital (level I top rated trauma center). Both have had advertisements on the website. So your theory that only the most loathesome of positions would be posted there seems a bit skewed. Obviously you either had a bad recruiter experience or are just anti-CRNA. I haven't figured it out yet. Anyway, again are you a CRNA, because if not you should probably not be speaking for the profession.

There's a difference between using recruiters and using Gaswork. You're starting to confuse the two. Gaswork is an OK resource, but many employers simply don't use it. It does give hints as to what a variety of employers are offering in a given area. Recruiters on the other hand charge outrageous fees, that again, my group would prefer to pay to the anesthetist and not a recruiter.

You're not even in school yet but somehow you think you have a clear understanding of this issue. You don't. As stated previously, most of the previous threads on this topic on this board are generally against the use of recruiters.

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Recruiters on the other hand charge outrageous fees, that again, my group would prefer to pay to the anesthetist and not a recruiter.

I am still confused. Are you a CRNA? It seems that you are saying that you are part of the decision making crew for an anesthesia group. Am I correct or just reading too much into what you are saying? As for gaswork, there are recruiters on that website as well as independent groups and hospitals. I am well aware of how a recruiter works, and that they are paid a head-hunting fee. Many companies feel that by paying this fee they get to forgo the misery of weeding through applications and instead give the responsiblity to the recruiter to find the cream-of-the-crop. No, I don't have first hand experience with recruiters as a CRNA, but I've had head-hunters who have gotten me outlandish deals in ICU's in the past, so yes, I have had experience with recruiters. I know that when I did my salary was not lower than any of the nurses who hired in directly and was in fact higher, as well as the fact that I received a larger sign-on bonus because it was negotiated that way. I think it all depends on the individual circumstances as to what is the best deal for someone. I'm not one to judge either way, just know that I had positive outcomes when I've worked with recruiters before. Someone else may say they have had rotten experiences. To each his own.....

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Specializes in Level 1 Trauma, ICU, Anesthesia.
I am still confused. Are you a CRNA? It seems that you are saying that you are part of the decision making crew for an anesthesia group. Am I correct or just reading too much into what you are saying? As for gaswork, there are recruiters on that website as well as independent groups and hospitals. I am well aware of how a recruiter works, and that they are paid a head-hunting fee. Many companies feel that by paying this fee they get to forgo the misery of weeding through applications and instead give the responsiblity to the recruiter to find the cream-of-the-crop. No, I don't have first hand experience with recruiters as a CRNA, but I've had head-hunters who have gotten me outlandish deals in ICU's in the past, so yes, I have had experience with recruiters. I know that when I did my salary was not lower than any of the nurses who hired in directly and was in fact higher, as well as the fact that I received a larger sign-on bonus because it was negotiated that way. I think it all depends on the individual circumstances as to what is the best deal for someone. I'm not one to judge either way, just know that I had positive outcomes when I've worked with recruiters before. Someone else may say they have had rotten experiences. To each his own.....

He's an AA.

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He's an AA.

Ah.....enough said.;)

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Specializes in ECMO.
Ah.....enough said.;)

Chief Anesthetist in an ACT practice. :up:

(correct me if I'm wrong here jwk)

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Specializes in MICU & SICU.
Hands down CRNA is the way to go. You can play that 'most CRNAs don't work independently" all you want. The fact is we can--you can't. That isn't a crack on AAs--it's just a fact. And in reality, AAs never will. Fact is, there are 37,000 CRNAs--half the anesthesia work force. How many AAs are there? 1700? Why would you want to play on a team with only 1700 players? Do you really think it's a contest? Come on. The AANA is one of the top 10 recognized organizations on Capital Hill--your going to compete with our organization? Get real. Give it another 50 years--then maybe. This is not our fault--its just the way it is. We worked hard to get to this point. I can't believe you would try to downplay our profession. Face it--AA is a runner up scenario. Your comments cement my feelings. AAs should be trying to befriend us not alienate us.
:yeah::yeah::yeah:
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Chief Anesthetist in an ACT practice. :up:

(correct me if I'm wrong here jwk)

Correct.

The point I was trying to make to neurogeek (doesn't matter if I'm AA or CRNA or MD) is that recruiters don't make good sense. Because I'm the chief anesthetist in my group, I'm involved in interviewing and hiring both CRNA's and AA's. Believe it or not, we have almost equal amounts of each, and hire qualified applicants of either persuasion. We never, ever, use recruiters to search for applicants, nor do we take referrals from them for those looking for positions. It's truly "thanks - no thanks, we don't use recruiters, goodbye, CLICK".

If neurogeek would take the time to do a search on this forum, s/he would find CRNA's that share the opinion, that, in general, using recruiters is not all it's cracked up to be.

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Specializes in Pain Management.
I think you sort of have a misconception of what being watched is all about or you missed my point of what patient care experience really means.

So you are saying the your biology degree or whatever BS degree that you had was far tougher than Nursing school. I might retink that statement considering you have not endured nursing school. :

I have done both and I can safely say that my bachelor's in biology was significantly more difficult than my Accelerated BSN.

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Many of you fail to appreciate the backlash that is building against CRNA's. Every resident, every anesthesiologist I have spoken to never praises them. They just grudgingly say that they need them. The newer generation of anesthesiologists won't take the propaganda by the AANA so well. There is growing awareness in anesthesiology that they have been complacent too long. Look at the Lousiana court decisions against CRNA's doing pain. While you can't get rid of CRNA's, you can hire their counterparts the AA's. Remember who sits in the chairman seats and who does most of the hiring. It's not CRNA's. It's anesthesiologists. Having hiring power means that they have a lot of say how the future will look.

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Many of you fail to appreciate the backlash that is building against CRNA's. Every resident, every anesthesiologist I have spoken to never praises them. They just grudgingly say that they need them. The newer generation of anesthesiologists won't take the propaganda by the AANA so well. There is growing awareness in anesthesiology that they have been complacent too long. Look at the Lousiana court decisions against CRNA's doing pain. While you can't get rid of CRNA's, you can hire their counterparts the AA's. Remember who sits in the chairman seats and who does most of the hiring. It's not CRNA's. It's anesthesiologists. Having hiring power means that they have a lot of say how the future will look.

I really had a nice giggle from your post (no offense). My ex was an MDA, and so I was around his anesthesia group for years and years. Only 2 out of the 12 + peeps (MDA's)in the group were anti-CNRA. This was at a major trauma center in the Dallas/FW area. I also spent many months shadowing a CRNA in the OR while deciding if it's what I really wanted to do. Only once during that time did I see an MDA not support a CRNA in the OR setting. The 2 groups were very friendly to one another and, when asked about MDA hostility, most of the CRNA's said that they had never had much problem with that issue save for a few "old-school" thinkers who were a bit behind times. But the CRNA's I spoke with all told me that the majority of docs they worked with were really supportive. Don't get me wrong, I know that there are always going to be some MDA's who find CRNA's threatening, especially now that the DNAP is available. I'm not naive about this issue. As for who does the hiring......I know a CRNA who just went into partnership with 3 MD's (not MDA's) and they are building a private hospital. She (the CRNA) will be doing all the hiring for the anesthesia department, with recommendations from the board. Her own son, an MDA, is completely supportive of this. So it's safe to say that not always will the MDA be making decisions about employment. Food for thought......

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I really had a nice giggle from your post (no offense). My ex was an MDA, and so I was around his anesthesia group for years and years. Only 2 out of the 12 + peeps (MDA's)in the group were anti-CNRA. This was at a major trauma center in the Dallas/FW area. I also spent many months shadowing a CRNA in the OR while deciding if it's what I really wanted to do. Only once during that time did I see an MDA not support a CRNA in the OR setting. The 2 groups were very friendly to one another and, when asked about MDA hostility, most of the CRNA's said that they had never had much problem with that issue save for a few "old-school" thinkers who were a bit behind times. But the CRNA's I spoke with all told me that the majority of docs they worked with were really supportive. Don't get me wrong, I know that there are always going to be some MDA's who find CRNA's threatening, especially now that the DNAP is available. I'm not naive about this issue. As for who does the hiring......I know a CRNA who just went into partnership with 3 MD's (not MDA's) and they are building a private hospital. She (the CRNA) will be doing all the hiring for the anesthesia department, with recommendations from the board. Her own son, an MDA, is completely supportive of this. So it's safe to say that not always will the MDA be making decisions about employment. Food for thought......

Don't know how long he's been your ex, but maybe you should do some catching up. A lot has changed in the last few years. The AANA has brought "shooting themselves in the foot" to a whole new level in the last few years. Until fairly recently, MD/CRNA relations were fairly cordial, and in fact, in the hospital, still are most of the time. However, as far as the political side, the AANA has ramped up the rhetoric so much that anesthesiologists have simply had enough, and are now willing to fight back. The ASA is not alone in all this - the AMA is on board as well. Add to that the lies, distortions, and even possible bribes revolving around some CRNA's and their fights against AA legislation, and the AANA and other CRNA organizations simply lose credibility.

It would be unusual for MD's and CRNA's to be "partners". In fact, in some states, a professional corporation consisting of those two different types of providers would be barred by statute.

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I don't quite understand why a CRNA would talk so negatively about the AANA. I mean, if you don't like what they're doing, why not speak out in their meetings? Why not become politically involved in the AANA and help to ameliorate their problems - "shooting themselves in the foot," as it has been said? Let's try to be productive, and maybe we'll all be better off.

I've been a critical care nurse for over a dozen years, and, while I admittedly don't "hang out" with MDA's in the lounge, I have never had the sense that they are so bitter about the existence of (or the proliferation of) CRNA's. At least where I have worked (and it has been numerous different institutions), the CRNA's and the MDA's have had good relationships. That is, they work side by side and seem to have reasonable respect for each other.

The only group (if any) that should be concerned / leery about the other is CRNA's about AA's, and AA's about CRNA's. Quite frankly, there are currently enough available jobs for both, but I could understand a bit of competition between those groups, as they do often compete for similar jobs.

So I may be crazy, but whenever I hear someone attack the AA profession (or AA individuals), I can't help but wonder if it's a CRNA feeling threatened. Similarly, whenever I hear someone attack the CRNA profession (or individual CRNA's, or even the AANA), I can't help but wonder if it's an AA, feeling threatened.

So, whether it's an argument about, "why do THEY make more than we do," or "why can THEY practice here and we can't", I fear that we would ALL benefit more in the long run if we don't get too crazy politically. Even to the end regarding health care payment - and the possibility of single-payer systems, Universal coverage, or the like. Trying to exploit one title or another is likely to hurt the whole profession more than it helps.

I don't think anyone questions the fact that (with rare exceptions), CRNA's do a good, safe job administering anesthesia. Know what? So do AA's.

As far as which role is right for whom - that's an individual decision. As a nurse, the CRNA route makes more sense for ME. I also like the idea of (at least for now, as I am a realist) having the option to practice in all 50 states.

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